Midi guitar question

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Midi guitar question

Postby Counterstriker » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:15 pm

I bought a GK-3 for my carvin, for now im just going to use my neighbors old gr-20 but i want to get the gr-55. My question is how do you run the signal? Would you run it to the amp, i ask this because i wonder if the speaker would add to much color to the midi samples, im not using e120, im using stock 73 twin speakers reconed by Jensen.
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby nabco » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:48 am

I would like to get the gr-55 soon also! I noticed that J.K. was using it at the PPV thing at TRI studios. I have been looking into this midi synth thing for a while now and my research on the internet is leading me to believe that you will get a much better response from a acoustic amp or straight to the PA? I think that this is very close to what Vic from Playing Dead does with his AXE FX (he really has some great original tunes by the way!) , basically the signal is getting digitized to mimic other instruments and you need the proper speakers and HORNS to do this type of thing and a regular guitar speaker just will not do it from what I am gathering off of the other guitar synth blog sites! I MIGHT BE WRONG but this is what I am gathering from a fairly new(1980 I think) and not widely accepted technology among guitar players.
When I get my GR55 up and running With the Graphtech Ghost Hexpander System I will Post a few samples of the useable sounds!
I am really wondering what J.K. is using the GR55 for? It Just Looks Like Too Much Fun.......... I Gotttta Geddit
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby tcsned » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:04 am

I'd run straight to PA if possible. I've used my twin (ran it it into the non-reverb side) and it works ok but it's really better in a full range system. I have a Graphtec Ghost system in my guitar now and I have to say I am less than thrilled with it. It was their first generation and I'm sure it's improved now.
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby Counterstriker » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:39 am

that's the problem.. I don't mic my amp alot, most of the shows are small places that a twin can fill up easily. Did jerry run though the JBL's? I'm looking into buying a nice sized powered speaker later on and using that next to my speaker cab. Do you think it will sound alright?
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby tcsned » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:59 am

Counterstriker wrote:that's the problem.. I don't mic my amp alot, most of the shows are small places that a twin can fill up easily. Did jerry run though the JBL's? I'm looking into buying a nice sized powered speaker later on and using that next to my speaker cab. Do you think it will sound alright?

I'm almost positive he ran the midi straight to mixer. If you get a little powered speaker that'll probably work. I use my Schertler acoustic instrument amp on occasion and it's great for the synth. Some of it depends on what your using the synth for. Jerry did a lot of horns and flutes and such and that would probably work reasonably well through your amp. Since we don't have a regular keyboardist, I do more B3 stuff to add some sustain instrument to all the guitars.
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby unnbrokenchain » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:04 am

If you are running a MIDI setup the TWO THINGS you really want to have is a solid state amp. MIDI SYNTH stuff doesn't not sound good at all if your running it through some old fender tubes. Leave that stuff for the guitar path only. The second thing you want to have are some clean high wattage PA type speakers. This will allow your signal to be uncolored by the speakers and have all the desired frequencies. I have ran my MIDI through PA's and that is certainly the best way to do it, but I have had the same exact outcome with my 2X12 E120's. You also just want to run the MIDI signal through a power amplifier ONLY. No preamplifiers or Eq's. The exception of course is if have any effects units. I run mine through a Lexicon MX400 and it makes it so worthwhile. You might already know this, but the reverb and other effects on the GR20 are crap.
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby unnbrokenchain » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:09 am

P.S. The Jensen speakers will NOT go well with the MIDI. You will be cursing yourself for waisting all the time and MONEY if you don't find the proper speaker set up.


Regarding J.K. He has been using a 2x12 (it looks like) PA black cabinet in his rig for a while. It sits on the right side from his rack while his E120 cabinet sits on the opposite. The conclusion I've drawn to is that he sends his MIDI to the small PA powered cab and then that cab gets mic'd as well?
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby JonnyBoy » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:07 pm

Yes, I believe most use either a direct to PA or for a stage type setup, another amp->2 or3 way cab. A great thing to match it to would be put a QSC K12 right next to your twin and a A/B switcher to go between the systems... Most people go straight to the PA with it and monitor it from the stage monitors and/or separate cab dedicated to that channel. Brad had mentioned going into a guitar amp works, but it is not at all optimal. :smile:
http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby nabco » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:27 pm

tcsned wrote
" I have a Graphtec Ghost system in my guitar now and I have to say I am less than thrilled with it. It was their first generation and I'm sure it's improved now."


What is it about the graphtech ghost system that you are not happy with? Are you using it with the acoustic module, the hexpander module or both? would you choose the GK-3 pickup over the graphtech.
I like how the strings are actually touching the pickups with the graphtech. Any help is greatly appreciated
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby tcsned » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:58 pm

Mine was a really early version and it may have had some bugs that have been worked out. First, it kinda messed with my electric tone. It added a gain boost that it's not designed to do and sounded like the piezo was getting in the magnetic pickup signal even when turned off. It also was almost impossible to get a decent signal into the synth either way too much or nothing. It didn't play really smooth with synth sounds - lots of stray harmonics and such. Take this with a grain of salt, like I said it was an early model. Plus my guitar has been through some rough treatment and something may have gotten knocked out of whack - I had it looked at by the guy who installed it but he could never find anything. When my new guitar is finally done I'm going with a GK-3 though the Graph-Tech is probably fine, just has me a little gun shy.
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby Counterstriker » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:31 am

I have a good powered speaker that I can use for now, Just set it up next to my speaker cab, I installed the GK-3 lastnight after seeing Furthur at the mann :cool:
It was kind of a pain, because the bridge and the pickup cover on the carvin are to close together, so i had to move the cover and re-drill holes to make it work, not to mention the double sided tape that Roland gives you is really hard to work with.. But here are some pics of the finished product! I'm most likely going to go with the gr-55 if i can work enough hours this week!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/85 ... 10394.jpg/


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/691/wp000186.jpg/
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby Counterstriker » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:12 pm

I have another question.. i was pretty close to john when we saw furthur and for the first time i noticed that he is only running the midi wire out of the gk-3, not the small jumper from guitar to gk-3.. so he has 3 wires running from the guitar. I was under the impression you need to run that wire from guitar to gk-3. so wouldn't that mean he would need to turn his guitar volume down all the way if he wanted to just have the midi sounds?
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Re: Midi guitar question

Postby tcsned » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:40 pm

Counterstriker wrote:I have another question.. i was pretty close to john when we saw furthur and for the first time i noticed that he is only running the midi wire out of the gk-3, not the small jumper from guitar to gk-3.. so he has 3 wires running from the guitar. I was under the impression you need to run that wire from guitar to gk-3. so wouldn't that mean he would need to turn his guitar volume down all the way if he wanted to just have the midi sounds?

Yeah it adds a layer of fooling with knobs to the process. I had my magnetic pickups separated from the midi rig because it was messing with my tone and gain. I'm assuming that JK experienced the same thing. I like blending synth and guitar signal so it worked for that.
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