Tiger Wiring Question

Tiger Wiring Question

Postby monroe » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:11 am

I can't believe there is any aspect of Tiger's wiring that hasn't been covered here before, but I did a fairly thorough search on my two questions and didn't find anything, so I'll ask ...

First off, I'm a total noob when it comes to wiring. I've never done any wiring myself. But in anticipation of Santa bringing me all the soldering equipment I'll need to start doing some wiring projects of my own, I've been doing LOTS of research and study on guitar wiring, and it helps that I'm good at math and physics so I pickup on this kind of stuff pretty quick. I've studied lots of diagrams, and have a pretty solid (if somewhat basic) understanding of Waldo's tiger schematic. That said, I have a couple questions.

1.) Is the ground "bus" wire left exposed after all grounds are connected, or should it be wrapped to avoid extraneous "connections"? I've seen some other similar diagrams where they have you use a washer for all the ground connections, with instructions to wrap the washer in electrical tape when finished. It seems to me like leaving the bus exposed could leave an open door for problems, but again, I'm a total noob so perhaps I'm wrong?

2.) The other question I have is in regard to the placement of the tone caps. In every diagram I've seen, the connections are done such that the signal is fed to the tone pot first, and the cap is placed between the pot and ground. But it appears on Tiger, the signal is fed to the tone pot via the cap (i.e. the cap is wired straight to the 5-way selector and the input of the tone pot). My basic understanding of electrical physics tells me that really you could wire it either way and get the same results. Is that right? Does wiring the cap "tiger style" have any sonic difference, or was it solely done that way to make for a cleaner/easier wiring job?

I was also going to ask if someone could post a schematic with a variation of the Tiger wiring to match my configuration (H-S-H pups with coil splits and a single master volume and master tone), but I think it'll be a good exercise/test for me to try and draw it up myself and then have the experts here verify if I have done it correctly, or if I need to do more studying.

And a quick THANK YOU to all the experts on these forums who have the kindness and patience to help out noobs like myself!
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:40 am

I'm far from an expert on Tiger wiring but if you're totally new to guitar wiring it might be a good idea to start with something a lot simpler like a stock Strat or Les Paul. Experiment with some cheap parts on a budget guitar before diving into one of the most complicated guitars of all time and getting frustrated when things don't work right. Just my .02c
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby bdhact1 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:11 am

IMO The best way to learn is to make mistakes and then figure out why it didn't work the first time; But, this is better suited for an old beater guitar rather than a good instrument.
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby monroe » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:27 am

Thanks fellas. I totally agree on both points. I've got an old beater to mess around and learn on, and I'll certainly try my hand at some basic setups before adding buffers and OBEL's and such.

But even though I'm not experienced enough to tackle and actual tiger style wiring yet, I have developed (I think .. err ... I hope) enough knowledge to look at some more advanced diagrams and figure out conceptually what's going on with the circuit and understand why things are done they way they are. As I mentioned, I've done lots of studying so far and looked at tons of diagrams of "stock" wirings (strat, tele, les paul, etc) as well as some mods (coil splits, etc) to make sure that I have a thorough understanding of the basics of stock wiring circuits, and learning the concepts of the tiger circuit is the next step in my learning of more advanced configurations.

I feel comfortable enough with what I've learned so far to try my hand at some stock wirings, but I won't have all the necessary equipment until Christmas. So in the meantime, I'm continuing to learn some more advance conceptual stuff, even though it'll be some time until I actually attempt to do it in real life.
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby monroe » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:17 pm

Any ideas on the tone caps issue?
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby TI4-1009 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:29 am

As for the tone caps- I think you're correct. That's what the diagrams show, and in the one photo I've seen you can't tell for sure, but it looks that way. I belive the grounding bus wire is "naked"- not covered. Also- it looks from the photo like the naked ground wire lays right over the top of the bridge tone control pot body. You can't see clearly if it's solderd on, but it's obviously in "close elctrical contact". These are both my guess from what I see. Too bad we can't get Gary Brower on the board!

Now, my questions are- from the photos it looks like all the cavities on Tiger were painted with the black shielding paint- correct?

I'm not clear about the AB Modpot. Is the AB Allen Bradley, or AB like "A or B". I know the pot was used to control tone for the bridge and neck pickups- is it a "push/pull"? Current source for it or similar?
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby TI4-1009 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:00 pm

The caps question got me thinking. On a Gibson style guitar the signal goes from the pickup to the volume pot to the switch to the jack. The tone controls are connected to the volume pot via a capacitor, and both of those determine the frequencies that get bled off to ground.

On a strat, the pickups go right to the switch, then to the volume pot, to the jack. The two tone control also come off two other lugs on the switch.

Tiger is more strat-like, but Jerry liked having the volume at the end of the signal path- plus there was the buffer and the option of using the OBEL. So it looks like tiger goes (with effects loop off):

pickups> switch> buffer> loop switch> volume pot> out jack. The two tone signals come off the switch- strat-like, and use the capacitor leads to connect from switch to pot.

With the loop on it goes:

pickups> switch> buffer> loop switch> out to effects through one side of the stereo pug, back through the other> volume> out jack.

Other side of out stereo jack also serves as on/off for the buffer battery.

So it looks like it's based upon standard strat wiring, modified to use the buffer and effects loop with volume at the end of the signal, with a Gibson-ish capacitor-to-the-tone control connection.

I only know enough to be dangerous- please, Waldo or you guys that really know this stuff jump in and correct me!

Also- see the excellent "Help- Tiger wiring questions- with images" thread below. The visuals that jmfranc created really help.
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby monroe » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:04 pm

I know less than enough to be dangerous, but I believe your description of the signal path is accurate.

My question is, as far as wiring the tone pots and caps go ... Tiger is wired such that the tone cap is wired in between the switch and the tone pot. Seems the generally used method though is to run a wire from the switch to the tone pot, and then put the cap between the pot and ground. Is the "tiger method" (putting the cap between the switch and pot) done for some sonic reason (i.e. it had an effect on the tone that was desirable to Jerry), or does it have no sonic effect and was just done that way to make the wiring cleaner/easier?

Waldo? Brad? Anyone?
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby TI4-1009 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:21 pm

Another question for the experts who chime in- if wiring a lefty, what do I need to keep in mind about Super 2 orientation and coil cut wiring?
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby waldo041 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:34 pm

monroe wrote:I know less than enough to be dangerous, but I believe your description of the signal path is accurate.

My question is, as far as wiring the tone pots and caps go ... Tiger is wired such that the tone cap is wired in between the switch and the tone pot. Seems the generally used method though is to run a wire from the switch to the tone pot, and then put the cap between the pot and ground. Is the "tiger method" (putting the cap between the switch and pot) done for some sonic reason (i.e. it had an effect on the tone that was desirable to Jerry), or does it have no sonic effect and was just done that way to make the wiring cleaner/easier?

Waldo? Brad? Anyone?


i don't know why it was done that way, may be a sonic affect, but never tried to experiment with it. i just know that is how it was wired.

TI4-1009 wrote:Another question for the experts who chime in- if wiring a lefty, what do I need to keep in mind about Super 2 orientation and coil cut wiring?


you'll want to pay attention to the orientation of the dimarzios output wires, or the hole where those wires come out. other then that, i think a reverse audio/log taper 25k pot would be better for you lefty's.?

peace,
waldo
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby monroe » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:24 pm

Thanks Waldo. Pretty sure this board would disintegrate without your knowledge and expertise!
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby waldo041 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:05 pm

monroe wrote:Thanks Waldo. Pretty sure this board would disintegrate without your knowledge and expertise!



no problem, but rest assured there are plenty of more knowledgeable peeps here then me! :peas:

peace,
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby boater1941 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:55 pm

pointless
Last edited by boater1941 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tiger Wiring Question

Postby mgbills » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:59 am

AB is Allen Bradley. The original Modpot was a stackable pot designed around a single shaft. Nifty. Durable. Flexible. No longer made...but Leo at SFG has some authorized copies that I believe are made by State Supply. Top pot for the job. Not cheap, but very cool.
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