Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby softmachine72 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:24 pm

Tom Lieber called my shop yesterday and we spoke for a minute. I took the opportunity to pepper him with questions. He was nice enough to freely share more info about the instruments we are all so interested in. Among the cool knowledge he imparted to me, a few tidbits stuck out. First, he told me that the center block in the Tiger is actually constructed from the same piece of quilted maple used on the Wolf. Apparently, he and Doug thought it would be a hoot to have a piece of showcase quality quilted maple deep within Tiger, in a place that would never be seen . He also mentioned that the lower density of the "soft maple" was also a plus, to cut down on weight. He also said the wings were completely hollow not just chambered. Those two tidbits were the new info to me, if this is already known, I apologize for repeating what is already known I have been out of circulation a while, after a brief tussle with a wood joiner a three weeks ago. Yea, the Joiner won and took parts of a few fingers on my left hand for a prize.(Always use push blocks when using joiners)
L
SFG
User avatar
softmachine72
Steal Your Face
Steal Your Face
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:11 am
Location: Dallas Tx

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby tcsned » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:12 pm

I hadn't heard that Wolf and Tiger shared wood from the same tree, pretty cool.

Here's a shot of the prosthetics that Tony Iommi wears:
Image
Heal up!
User avatar
tcsned
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:50 pm
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby williamsaut » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:18 pm

I'd say that totally hollow body wings on the Tiger even though the volume is pretty small overall, makes a difference that can really contribute the the sound of the thing. The center block being bigleaf soft maple along with the rest of the maple in the instrument really makes me wonder how it can be 12lbs when my rock maple/vermillion/cocobolo copy is only 11lbs. Where's the weight coming from? I don't think it's from the brass binding and wire inlay tracery. That couldn't add up to that much. I've heard conflicting info on the lams in Tiger. Sometimes I hear it's all Purple heart like the wing core pieces of Wolf and other times I hear it's vermillion (African Padauk) which is a lot lighter. Maybe that could be the difference. Good shot's of Tiger really look like the padauk though. Waldo's shots of the inside of the wiring cavity do show how the pots are actually off to the side 'inside' the body wing where it appeared bigger than just the shape of the cover. That's a clue that perhaps it's true that the body wing side pieces are hollow. Anybody else got a pro built Tiger copy with hollow wings?
When the secrets all are told,
And the petals all unfold.
williamsaut
Blues for Allah
Blues for Allah
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 6:17 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby TI4-1009 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:39 pm

Wellllll...... maybe...... From the side quilted maple has waves in the grain- that's what gives it the bubble look- as the sections of wave break the surface of the wood. The maple edge of Tiger doesn't look like that to me. It does look just like flamed maple. Look at the photo on Waldo's site just above the wiring schematic.

Irwin interview on Waldo's site:

Irwin: "The Tiger is made out of coca-bola and western maple. It's softer, well it's a similar type of maple that the Wolf was made out of..."

Not clear from Leo's post if the "wings" is refering to Tiger or Wolf- I assumed Wolf. Tiger didn't really have wings- wings are on a neck-through guitar. Tiger has a set neck on a two-piece bookmatched body.
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1430
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby waldo041 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:19 pm

TI4-1009 wrote: Tiger didn't really have wings- wings are on a neck-through guitar. Tiger has a set neck on a two-piece bookmatched body.


Negative, Tiger began as a neck through and then it was decided that the configuration was not going to work, so the wings were cut off. The top and back is actually 3 parts, center and wings, and the brass is used to cover the seams. Same construction on Rosebud and the seams are obvious.

Wolf, Tiger, and Rosebud are not completely hollow. Wolf and Rosebud are chambered, a common Alembic technique, and Tiger may have some chambering(it is not believed to have been), but it is not hollow.

Read Irwin's descriptions in his interviews for the truth about HIS instruments.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby TI4-1009 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:42 pm

Yup, yup, right again Waldo- that's the reason they had to "cover up their mistakes" with all that brass. 8)
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1430
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby softmachine72 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:09 pm

I was referring to the "wings" on the Tiger as being hollow, meaning there is only about an inch (give or take) of maple core all the way around the instrument wings. I guess it is a matter of semantics hollow or chambers, At any rate there seems to be a lot more space in there than I ever thought.The quilted maple is only the center block. All of the maple on the guitar is Western Maple the, quilting or curl refers to the figure or grain characteristics of the particular piece. Waldo and you are right It was constructed like most Alembics. (See below)
Image
User avatar
softmachine72
Steal Your Face
Steal Your Face
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:11 am
Location: Dallas Tx

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby TI4-1009 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:44 pm

Well, it would make sense from the Alembic pedagree. I always thought that there was a lot of room in the control cavity on the photos- it looked like a "lip" over a bigger cavity- maybe that's what we're seeing?
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1430
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby shadowboxer » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:03 pm

Sorry to hear about the accident Leo. Not a good thing to go through, especially for a guitar player.
shadowboxer
Donna
Donna
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:16 pm

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby TI4-1009 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:40 am

waldo041 wrote:Negative, Tiger began as a neck through and then it was decided that the configuration was not going to work, so the wings were cut off. ~waldo


I always wondered about that- do we know why it wouldn't work? Was there something about the swimming pool and buffer routes that made the neck-through impractical- or impossible? Something structural? Or cosmetic? They started down the neck-through path but then realized they had to go to a set neck. I thought I remembered something about they went a little too far routing the pickup pool and went through the back (or it got too thin) and that's why the decorative oval is there. If that's true maybe it was a structural thing? If you lose too much of the neck do you lose any benefit of "neck through"?
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1430
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby Thomas Lieber » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:15 am

TI4-1009 wrote:
waldo041 wrote:Negative, Tiger began as a neck through and then it was decided that the configuration was not going to work, so the wings were cut off. ~waldo


I always wondered about that- do we know why it wouldn't work? Was there something about the swimming pool and buffer routes that made the neck-through impractical- or impossible? Something structural? Or cosmetic? They started down the neck-through path but then realized they had to go to a set neck. I thought I remembered something about they went a little too far routing the pickup pool and went through the back (or it got too thin) and that's why the decorative oval is there. If that's true maybe it was a structural thing? If you lose too much of the neck do you lose any benefit of "neck through"?


my ears are ringing my ears where ringin
I have told most of this story here http://www.lieberguitars.com/guitars/garcia/
Facts are Doug and I were a couple of knuckleheads who when building Jerry’s Tiger , our vision ( ornamentally) was to have no visual break across its arched top but when building the guitars wood part components it was business as usual, meaning we accidentally out of habit built it as a neck through. We didn't realize this until I began the Sear bass project. At that point it was ( F me) we screwed up but Doug found a path out of that dilemma!

best,
Thomas
Thomas Lieber
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:06 am

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby TI4-1009 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:48 am

Thanks Thomas. I had read that before but was still a little confused. So it was started as a neck-through, but then you realized the neck/wing border would break up the visual "continuity" on the top and back, so you made up a center section to match the wings but it still wasn't a perfect match so you filled in the seams with the brass runners to cover the visual disconnect between the center block and the wings?
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1430
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby Thomas Lieber » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:28 am

TI4-1009 wrote:Thanks Thomas. I had read that before but was still a little confused. So it was started as a neck-through, but then you realized the neck/wing border would break up the visual "continuity" on the top and back, so you made up a center section to match the wings but it still wasn't a perfect match so you filled in the seams with the brass runners to cover the visual disconnect between the center block and the wings?


Yes, you are correct sir! And having personally drawn the oils from the Cocobolo and Vermilion prior to laminating the body components, I can tell you that the body core was cut out, making the wings hollow!
Thomas Lieber
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:06 am

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby waldo041 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:16 am

Thomas Lieber wrote:Yes, you are correct sir! And having personally drawn the oils from the Cocobolo and Vermilion prior to laminating the body components, I can tell you that the body core was cut out, making the wings hollow!



Great info Thomas, care to tell us just how this was done? Maybe draw out how the wings were hollowed out? So, with the wings completely hollow as you state, You are actually stating here for the first time that Tiger is really a semi hollow guitar? I wonder why Irwin never stated that in any of his interviews or why nobody ever mentioned it until this week?

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Tiger is Quilted ?!?!?

Postby SpaceYrface43 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:46 am

If Tiger was semi Hollow where did all the weight come from?
SpaceYrface43
710 ashbury
710 ashbury
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: Orchard Park,New York

Next

Return to Guitar Building and Mods

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest