phasing Di vs. SD pups

phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby tatittle » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:09 am

This post is probably frivilous, but...
I just switched out the neck SDS-1 Dimarzio for a Seymour Duncan SSL-2 and was surprised to find it is out of phase with my middle position Super 2. This is only a problem because I want hum-cancelling (which I had with the SDS-1)...otherwise I could just reverse the leads. I have not flipped my humbuckers yet, so maybe I will do that. That should give me the reverse wound I'm looking for right?
Is the SDS-1 opposite wind than a SD pup? I thought they were just opposite polarity. I also bought this pup used so I guess it could be a RWRP in the wrong box. Anyhoo...just some unsolicited sharing.
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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby mkaufman » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:01 am

Rotating does not give you reverse wound as the windings are still in the same direction.

For reverse wound, you need a pickup where the windings are reversed.

The only thing rotating does is change the physical location of the active pickup if the pickup is a humbucker and you split it.

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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby tatittle » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:22 am

Ok thanks...I kinda figured that but I have to relearn the whole speil everytime I rewire a guitar LOL
So flipping the pup reverses the polarity, which is the same thing as reversing the wires.

But, since it is a humbucker I am matching it too...one of the coils is the wind Im looking for, so if I switch the coil being cut I should get hum cancel again no? And I can do that by just switching the wires of the humbucker.
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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby waldo041 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:02 am

This may differ from manufactures but for all Dimarzio pickups they are wound in the same direction(counter-clockwise). The color coded wires are for distinguishing the Start and Finish of the winding. If the Start begins a counter-clockwise wind to it's Finish, then with that same coil beginning with the Finish begins a clockwise winding to the Start. With a series humbucker negative/ground actually begins at one coils Start and ends at it's Finish and then ties to the next coils Finish and ends at that coils Start for the Hot output. So you have one coil going clockwise and one coil going counterclockwise. Different Magnetic polarity.

So you should only need to change the start and finish wire of your new single coil to get rid of the phasing issue. With a stock Dimarzio SDS-1 the Hot is White which is its Finish and the Ground is Black which is its Start, wound counter-clockwise. When used with the correct coil of the Super 2, in single coil , the stock wiring of the SDS-1 puts the Neck/Middle combo out of phase. So as you will see in my schematic, and Jerry's tiger wiring, the Hot is in fact the Black and the Ground is the White to keep that position in phase. But not hum-cancelling because they are both magnetic north coils. To change that to hum-cancelling you would need a magnetic polarity change to south for the single coil, and of course use the correct winding.

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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby tatittle » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:52 am

Thanks Waldo. Of course I used your schematic which worked perfectly.

I forgot to flip the Super 2(s) originally though so I have the "wrong" coil active in split mode...although its a Strat so by my eyes the "wrong" coil may be closer to the neck side one in a 24 fret guitar. I had originally reversed the wires of the SDS-1 I believe.
But the issue isn't phasing, its the wind direction. Merely reversing the wires solves phase but leaves the hum...which some people prefer for a true vintage quack actually.
If I wire it for the "right" coil to be active (without flipping pup) I should get the hum-cancel I seek. I may just switch out the single coil for a RWRP one I have (Alnico 2 though) since rewiring those little switch posts isn't so easy :)
The neck SDS-1 didn't cut it for me in my Strat (different placement than Tiger/Wolf 24 fret guitars)...so Im looking for something new in the neck position. Eventually Ill probably just go to a 3 humbucker set-up.
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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby mkaufman » Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:33 am

tatittle wrote:Ok thanks...I kinda figured that but I have to relearn the whole speil everytime I rewire a guitar LOL
So flipping the pup reverses the polarity, which is the same thing as reversing the wires.

But, since it is a humbucker I am matching it too...one of the coils is the wind Im looking for, so if I switch the coil being cut I should get hum cancel again no? And I can do that by just switching the wires of the humbucker.


Flipping pups doesn't reverse polarity. It only alters location (of the active single coil when split).

Swapping hot & ground reverse polarity.

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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby PaulJay » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:03 pm

Tatitle, I think before setting aside the sds-1 you should change your pick gaurd to one that puts the neck pick-up in the proper position equal to the scale length of Tiger. I got one for my strat and am happy with the outcome. The Sds-1 sounds less bassy and more usable. The man that was nice enough to help me out with this idea is Mgbills, who if you don't already know is a very knowledgable person on this board. I am sure he can point you in the right direction if you wanted to get one of these. ,Paul
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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby mkaufman » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:42 pm

PaulJay wrote:Tatitle, I think before setting aside the sds-1 you should change your pick gaurd to one that puts the neck pick-up in the proper position equal to the scale length of Tiger. I got one for my strat and am happy with the outcome. The Sds-1 sounds less bassy and more usable. The man that was nice enough to help me out with this idea is Mgbills, who if you don't already know is a very knowledgable person on this board. I am sure he can point you in the right direction if you wanted to get one of these. ,Paul


This is a really good topic and maybe it should be made a separate discussion (assuming this hasn't been discussed).

So, if you're trying to Jerrify a Strat, you're dealing with a different scale length and different pickup locations. Assuming you used Tiger/Wolf pickups in your Strat, what pickguard did you use to get proper pickup placement? Did this require routing, or swimming pool to accommodate the correct pickup locations?

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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby waldo041 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:13 pm

mkaufman wrote:
PaulJay wrote:Tatitle, I think before setting aside the sds-1 you should change your pick gaurd to one that puts the neck pick-up in the proper position equal to the scale length of Tiger. I got one for my strat and am happy with the outcome. The Sds-1 sounds less bassy and more usable. The man that was nice enough to help me out with this idea is Mgbills, who if you don't already know is a very knowledgable person on this board. I am sure he can point you in the right direction if you wanted to get one of these. ,Paul


This is a really good topic and maybe it should be made a separate discussion (assuming this hasn't been discussed).

So, if you're trying to Jerrify a Strat, you're dealing with a different scale length and different pickup locations. Assuming you used Tiger/Wolf pickups in your Strat, what pickguard did you use to get proper pickup placement? Did this require routing, or swimming pool to accommodate the correct pickup locations?

mk


Strat's are not a different scale length, they are 25 1/2" like Wolf & Tiger, but do lack 24 frets. The Pickup placement pushes them closer together and closer to the bridge and does require a swimming pool rout. The Middle single coil roughly sits in the same location as the Middle humbucker when the proper neck-side single coil is tapped.

Martin Bills has headed up the acquisition of these pickguards and they are a MUST for a proper JerryCaster!

Image


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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby PaulJay » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:34 pm

I received my PG thru Mgbills who I believe sent his template to WD products. He is the Man to seek. Thanks Waldo for clearing that up about scale length. What you said is what I meant to say., Paul
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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby tatittle » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:35 pm

Indeed I also have the pickguard with shifted pup mounts. I haven't used it yet because it requires some extra routing near the bridge if I recall correctly (with a Fender swimming pool route). One day Ill get around to it, but lacking professional tools means that day is sometime in the future. Glad I have them though. Thanks.
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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby mkaufman » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:01 am

"Strat's are not a different scale length, they are 25 1/2" like Wolf & Tiger, but do lack 24 frets". Of course, you are correct!

tx,
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Re: phasing Di vs. SD pups

Postby tatittle » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:46 am

I just installed a alnico 2 SD in the neck (RWRP) and it gets the humcancel. I also flipped the Super2 and Steves Special (bridge) so that the neck side coils are active. Seems to have more balls maybe...not much difference. I might prefer the bridge side pup active on the bridge Steve's Special for quack, but its better straight SC like this. Thanks for the help guys. I gotta get an onboard buffer sometime.

A guy who is putting together a band for an R & B singer contacted me re: a band he is putting together to do shows for a new album and I am going to rehearse with them this weekend. If it works out it should be amusing bringing all my Jerry funk licks/effects to the R&B/hip-hop genre! Some of it matches quite well..the funky/jazzy side of Jerry along with the wompers and wah. :lol:
Womp womp wa womper wah wah...
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