PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:52 am

Yep, the site lists them as options... very cool.

And bass is always for her pleasure. Just ask Barry White! :cool:
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby nabco » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:57 pm

There is IMHO no comparison to the vintage JBL (E,D,or K series)!!!
Many other senior members here have stated that in other posts. You should look on Ebay for the E130/E140 there are some for $150-200 right now.
GET THE JBL E SERIES GRASSHOPPER.............................YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby jdsmodulus » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:04 pm

+1
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby strumminsix » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:14 pm

For folks that say no comparison have you A/B'd them?

Too much tone is in the eyes...
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby AKdead » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:09 pm

I have both the Weber Neomags and JBL E120s. They don't sound the same. The Neos are not broken in yet. First thing I noticed is that they are not as sensitve. 1 JBL at 8 ohms is louder than 2 Neos at 4 ohms (side by side with a stereo power amp). The amp is rated at twice the wattage at 4 ohms vs. 8 ohms...so how is the JBL louder? Same true with EVM 12Ls.

I've had the EVs for 25 years and they are my fave. I like them better that the JBL E-120s.

The Webers don't sound bad...and they weigh a bout 1/3 what the JBLs and EVs weigh...but maybe there is a reason why those speakers weigh so much. I think the Neos are rated at 75 watts, while the JBLs and EVs are rated at 200 (maybe 300 for the JBLs).
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby nabco » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:58 pm

great input everybody, what a great site to gather and share info on something that is so incredible! We are all really helping each other out somehow, and it seems to be working really good! WOW
MANY THANKS TO OUR HOST!!!

So the point of the post was to sound like phil in the seventies!
Phil used the JBL's if i am not mistaken.
Buy the JBL.

AND also.....
AKdead I would like to hear some more about your EV's and why you like them more than the JBL E120, also what type of rig are you playing through?
I hope this helps you rusty! good luck
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:14 am

My fear on the real-deal D140f speakers is their age and low wattage rating. I won't care how great it sounds if I blow it up at the first gig.

The K140 is intriguing....
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby strumminsix » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:31 am

AKdead wrote:I have both the Weber Neomags and JBL E120s. They don't sound the same. The Neos are not broken in yet. First thing I noticed is that they are not as sensitve. 1 JBL at 8 ohms is louder than 2 Neos at 4 ohms (side by side with a stereo power amp). The amp is rated at twice the wattage at 4 ohms vs. 8 ohms...so how is the JBL louder? Same true with EVM 12Ls.

I've had the EVs for 25 years and they are my fave. I like them better that the JBL E-120s.

The Webers don't sound bad...and they weigh a bout 1/3 what the JBLs and EVs weigh...but maybe there is a reason why those speakers weigh so much. I think the Neos are rated at 75 watts, while the JBLs and EVs are rated at 200 (maybe 300 for the JBLs).


What were your NoeMag configs? They are supposed to sound like D120s unless stated differently and the D120s sound ALOT different than E120s and either the EV is different again. But I do enjoy that speaker as well.
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby AKdead » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:48 pm

I first had JBLs in the 70's that came in a Twin Reverb...If I remember right, these were the orange back D-120s. That amp was heavy, loud, and I thought a little harsh (I was using a tele then, and not much effects. I could not get it loud enough to distort!).

Regarding the JBLs sound, referring to Garcia now, I usually heard something in the upper midrange that I didn't like, almost a distortion (when he was playing clean), but not quite, hard to explain, but me ears didn't like it. Someone told me that what I was hearing was because of the aluminum dust cap. Looking for something else in similar power range I discovered the EVs and built 4 of the 1-12 cabs that EV sold blueprints for...these cabs were supposed to be tuned for the speaker, closed back, ported, and with a certain interior volume. I built those cabs in the mid-eighties and I still have two of them. They are loud and clean without the coloring/distortion sound I was hearing in the JBLs. In the last year I picked up a couple E-120s and they sound great, but I still prefer the EVs. Sometimes I run them both. I forget how the Neos are configured...I can search through emails and find out...I ordered them through Hogan on this board who builds the HT type cab. Maybe they will improve as they break in? Besides sensitivity, they just don't sound as solid (for lack of a better word).

The rig is a Brad Sarno Classic tube preamp (Garcia version) into an SAE 2200 power amp (100 watts per channel). So I can run two EVs on one channel and two JBLs on the other channel, or the two Neos in one channel. In doing that (EVs/Neos) I could barely hear the Neos as they were overpowered by the EVs. Same thing running 1 E-120 vs. 2 Neos. The SAE has no volume controls or even an on/off switch...so I can't adjust the volume between the two channels, using the Sarno CTP, which is mono.

I will soon recieve a Rivera TBR-5 stereo tube poweramp and I will be able to control the volume of each channel seperately, so then I can do a more accurate comparison of the speakers, hearing them at the same volume. I'll find out how my Neos are configured and post that info later.

Regarding Phil in the 70s, I don't know what years he used what but I associated him with Gauss (spelling?) speakers...I think they were made in Germany? 18 inchers! I read somewhere that the Dead's JBLs in the Wall of Sound were modified, but I don't know how.
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby RiverRat » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:21 pm

AKdead wrote:so how is the JBL louder?


Speakers have a couple of values to look at... Impedance and Power tell part of the tale. They say at the rated resistance, the speaker can handle so much power.

It does NOT tell you what the final result will be!

That is the speaker sensitivity... Rated in dB and measured from 1 meter away when applying 1 watt of power. From there you can do the math to tell what kind of SPL the speaker will push. Every time you double the power, you gain 3dB SPL @ 1meter...

The JBL is rated for 103dB of sensitivity... at 1 watt!

So 2 watts of power yields 106dB. 4 watts yields 109dB. 8 watts yields 112dB... etc... By the time we get to 128 watts of power, that JBL E-120 is producing 124dB SPL!

NeoMags are a direct replacement for a D-120, which has a sensitivity of 97dB.. so at 128 watts, it would be pushing 118dB SPL.

The E-120 at 6dB SPL louder is TWICE AS LOUD, it's all in the math... same power and impendance, same sized speakers... that 6dB of sensitivity translates to a speaker that's twice as loud.

Or a different way of looking at it... The same amps pushing a D-120 and an E-120... the D-120 will require 128watts to sound as loud as the E-120 pushed by 32 watts! That would be a "same volume" speaker comparison... But's it's really not the "same volume" since the volume knob won't be in the same place... :lol:

Weber does give an oblique answer to this on their website...
http://www.webervst.com/spterm.html#spl
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby AKdead » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:38 pm

Thanks RiverRat, that explains it. I went to the Weber site looking for sensitivity ratings for comparison among their speakers and could not find any.
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby AKdead » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:50 pm

Found the configuration on my Neos:
Doping: yes
Cloth surround: yes
8 ohms
paper dust cover
Neomag 12
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby AKdead » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:03 am

The Weber site now says this about the Neos:

We are currently working on redesigning the neo magnet circuit and will release several models throughout 2010

https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:45 am

AKdead wrote:The Weber site now says this about the Neos:

We are currently working on redesigning the neo magnet circuit and will release several models throughout 2010

https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/


Yeah, I found that after a TON of searching. Also found the Weber forum and am waiting to get activated so I can ask some more questions there.

I'm not sure I care if I get the old or new magnet... the info I found said that Ted's magnet design was really slow for them to assemble, not that there's anything sonically wrong with it.
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Re: PSA on Weber Neomag orders

Postby AKdead » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:30 am

I'll have an interesting JBL E-120 to check out soon. It is rebuilt and reconed with a paper dust cover. So I am curious how that compares to the aluminum one.
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