Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Re: Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Postby mijknahs » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:52 pm

Yankee Tim wrote:Thanks Jim. I'm thinking the same thing. But just spoke with Dutch @ Vin-Tone and he said its possible to damage the cone trying to replace the cover, especially considering the goop issue. He also said that JBL is now making the E kits in Mexico and the build quality is marginal at best. Well, that really sux. And the comment about a Weber recon'd D120 sounding just like a Weber didn't do.much more me either.

Now, he said a E-kit reconed D will never sound exactly like and original. But since Jerry went they different JBL incarnations, would the original D and E-kit D be a nice belnd together?


The original D120 with the E120 kit will sound like a K120 so you get the best of both worlds (higher wattage rating but alnico tone). But still, if the speaker works, just play it and enjoy it. You said it had "E120" written on it. It's probably already reconed with a E120 kit. You can't improve it. Any pro speaker repair will be able to cut out the old dust cap and glue in a new one without damaging the cone or voice coil. Don't do it yourself. Pay $20 for someone else to do a clean install.
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Postby Yankee Tim » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:12 pm

Thanks again. But to appease my Gemini, I want that smeggy cover gone and the wrinkle. The wrinkled cone on it is of concern. I am still bringing both to Vin-Tone and have him check them both out. If the questionable one needs reconing, is doing it with US made aftermarket parts that he says are much higher quality than the Mexican stuff out of JBL. The kit uses flat wire windings JBL soda cans covers, JBL spiders. He has an E and D (all paper) cone kit, and if I do the D, I would have the ability to A/B the speakers and see how close the two are. He's got 40 years experience and charges $120 out the door with the tests and spec sheet which I thought is reasonable by NY standards. He cam also do demagnetization if needed.

I'm thinking to cone it as a D, since I am told that is the Holy Grail of JBL tone. The lower D wattage should be fine as I don't plan of doing large venues, and could always be mic'd. Should that ever change (or i blow them), a couple Frabklons and they can be reconed as Ks.

I let you know how this goes. Thanks again so much.
Last edited by Yankee Tim on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yankee Tim
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 10:50 am

Re: Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Postby Yankee Tim » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:16 pm

After reviewing that previous post, all I can say is, Android auto fill sucks. :D
Yankee Tim
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 10:50 am

Re: Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Postby mijknahs » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:47 pm

Yankee Tim wrote:I'm thinking to cone it as a D, since I am told that is the Holy Grail of JBL tone.


It's the Holy Grail to some people but it really depends on you and what sound you want. For Jerry tone it depends on the era. I think the D120s are the 60's and early 70's. K120s were used in the mid 70's. Jerry started using the E120 sometime in the early 80's. I've always loved the Tiger/Brent era of GD/Jerry tone so it's E120s for me.
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Postby Vin-Tone » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:20 pm

mijknahs wrote:Don't recone the speaker unless it's blown. Just replace the dust cap with a new aluminum cap for the one that's ugly. You should be able to have it professionally done for $15 to $20.

Jim



Well sense Vin-Tone has been mentioned a few times in the forums I thought I might chime in. First to the above quote, replacing the aluminum dust cap on these speakers is no walk in the park. It is not a part that you can just go to Radio Shack and pick up. Furthermore the dust caps that are available are To Large. These are the ones you see in all the aftermarket kits, and on EBay. It will work in covering the old one but does not mount like the original. A big part of the function of the original part is how it is mounted. The larger cap just glues to the cone "WRONG" For the aluminum dust cap to preform it's intended function it has to mount to the top of the voice coil former.


Don't recone the speaker unless it's blown.

Unless you have a Original D-120 that has been in vacuum chamber for the last almost 50 years it "Can Not" sound the same as it did when it was new. These cones are Paper, Paper is dramatically effected by the environment. The glues used will also break down over time. "Most D-120's have been Beat To Hell" A speaker may even look perfect but in reality it is not. A speaker is a Electro-Mechincal device and to preform it's function properly it needs to be able to operate within the original parameters. A nearly 50 year old speaker can no longer do this. JBL Tech Bulletins use to state the average life span for Musical Instrument or Professional Products was estimated at 10-15 years in modest use applications.

Hopefully this information helps to clear up a few things. I will try and post more in the future.

Dutch

http://vin-tone.com
Vin-Tone
bruce
bruce
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:29 am
Location: Hudson River Valley

Re: Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Postby mijknahs » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:38 pm

Vin-Tone wrote:
mijknahs wrote:Don't recone the speaker unless it's blown. Just replace the dust cap with a new aluminum cap for the one that's ugly. You should be able to have it professionally done for $15 to $20.

Jim



Well sense Vin-Tone has been mentioned a few times in the forums I thought I might chime in. First to the above quote, replacing the aluminum dust cap on these speakers is no walk in the park. It is not a part that you can just go to Radio Shack and pick up. Furthermore the dust caps that are available are To Large. These are the ones you see in all the aftermarket kits, and on EBay. It will work in covering the old one but does not mount like the original. A big part of the function of the original part is how it is mounted. The larger cap just glues to the cone "WRONG" For the aluminum dust cap to preform it's intended function it has to mount to the top of the voice coil former.


Don't recone the speaker unless it's blown.

Unless you have a Original D-120 that has been in vacuum chamber for the last almost 50 years it "Can Not" sound the same as it did when it was new. These cones are Paper, Paper is dramatically effected by the environment. The glues used will also break down over time. "Most D-120's have been Beat To Hell" A speaker may even look perfect but in reality it is not. A speaker is a Electro-Mechincal device and to preform it's function properly it needs to be able to operate within the original parameters. A nearly 50 year old speaker can no longer do this. JBL Tech Bulletins use to state the average life span for Musical Instrument or Professional Products was estimated at 10-15 years in modest use applications.

Hopefully this information helps to clear up a few things. I will try and post more in the future.

Dutch

http://vin-tone.com


What I meant by "Don't recone unless it's blown" was don't just recone a speaker for the fun of it or because the dust cap is dented. Play it and see if it works and sounds fine. If it does, why bother reconing it? Just get a new dust cap professionally installed.

I thought I had a "blown" speaker because it was buzzing really bad but it was just a cracked aluminum dust cap that was vibrating. OC Speaker replaced the dust cap and it that fixed the problem. So no need to recone a speaker just because the dust cap is dented or ugly.
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Postby Vin-Tone » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:29 pm

What I meant by "Don't recone unless it's blown" was don't just recone a speaker for the fun of it or because the dust cap is dented. Play it and see if it works and sounds fine. If it does, why bother reconing it? Just get a new dust cap professionally installed.

I thought I had a "blown" speaker because it was buzzing really bad but it was just a cracked aluminum dust cap that was vibrating. OC Speaker replaced the dust cap and it that fixed the problem. So no need to recone a speaker just because the dust cap is dented or ugly.





Jim, I know exactly what you meant. My point was that a speaker does not have to be Blown or Damaged to justify a recone. Speakers do have a Life Span. Look at it this way. Your speakers are a part of your sound. When they get old they don't preform as well as when they where new. You may not notice it because it is a gradual loss of tone and sound quality. As far as the dust cap repair, I have known the folks at Orange County for 30+ years and respect them greatly. But as I explained if they used the larger aftermarket dust cap it is only a cosmetic repair. It does effect the Tone and the Heat Dissipation of the voice coil when that new dust cap is just glued to the cone. All I am trying to do is tell users how this stuff works and why.
Vin-Tone
bruce
bruce
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:29 am
Location: Hudson River Valley

Re: Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Postby Yankee Tim » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:44 pm

Dutch! And this is why I'm bringing my JBLs to you. :). The one "good" one is the older of the two and definitely had something spilled on it at some point in its life.

Just got a message today with the tracking number for my 2x22 cab. Gonna have to set a date/time to drop these off to you. I'll give you a buzz tomorrow when I'm home.
Yankee Tim
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 10:50 am

Re: Q's on JBL D120Fs.

Postby Vin-Tone » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:12 am

Post from mijknahs

The original D120 with the E120 kit will sound like a K120 so you get the best of both worlds (higher wattage rating but alnico tone). But still, if the speaker works, just play it and enjoy it. You said it had "E120" written on it. It's probably already reconed with a E120 kit. You can't improve it. Any pro speaker repair will be able to cut out the old dust cap and glue in a new one without damaging the cone or voice coil. Don't do it yourself. Pay $20 for someone else to do a clean install.



If a E-120 recone kit is used in a D-120 it will sound more like a K than a D but because the E used a different voice coil and is a little less compliant it is really closer to a less efficient E. Again not that this has to be a bad thing. Just be aware. Also please see my other post in reference to Replacing Aluminum Dusts Caps.
Vin-Tone
bruce
bruce
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:29 am
Location: Hudson River Valley

Previous

Return to Loudspeakers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest