P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:29 pm

I can't tell you whether or not you should go to that setup. I did it because I was getting buried at 900 watts. (most people don't consider the Shuttle 9.0 to be really 900 watts though)

The cons are: It's heavy, expensive, and somewhat complicated.

The pros are: it's loud, and not just loud but clean and loud. I find that the best way to avoid volume wars is for everybody to have a clear, focused tone. Plus with LOTS of wattage available, I don't have to run the rig at 100% of it's capability, which I believe will prolong its lifespan.

I still bring out the small, integrated head for acoustic gigs and practices where the full rig would be overkill. I'll find a pic of the stage rig tonight, I know there's a good one on Facebook.
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Walknbluez » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:38 pm

Rusty the Scoob wrote:I can't tell you whether or not you should go to that setup. I did it because I was getting buried at 900 watts. (most people don't consider the Shuttle 9.0 to be really 900 watts though)

The cons are: It's heavy, expensive, and somewhat complicated.

The pros are: it's loud, and not just loud but clean and loud. I find that the best way to avoid volume wars is for everybody to have a clear, focused tone. Plus with LOTS of wattage available, I don't have to run the rig at 100% of it's capability, which I believe will prolong its lifespan.

I still bring out the small, integrated head for acoustic gigs and practices where the full rig would be overkill. I'll find a pic of the stage rig tonight, I know there's a good one on Facebook.


Yes, that would probably be overkill for my purposes then. Sorry, but one bit of info always leads to additional questions. That is, is that much power really needed if you are playing venues where everybody is going through the PA and all everyone on stage needs is reasonable stage volume? Compared to your rig, i'm feeling inadequate with my 225 watt tube amp suddenly but then you hear people who have the amp say that it is plenty :P
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:59 am

Your amp would probably be plenty for me most of the time! Your tube amp can be driven much harder than my solid state setup and still sound warm and musical, so I don't really have 10x the available power that you do. At the time that I bought the big power amp, we were having some major stage-volume problems in Fennario and the preamp had just fallen in my lap, so I bought the power amp used online.

I like having the big rig because we often don't have a PA that'll handle bass well enough. My personal PA doesn't have subs and a lot of clubs have vocal-only PAs, too. I like knowing that I can fill almost any room with clear, pounding bass without relying on anyone else's gear if necessary.

I don't mind the weight or bulk as much since my bass amp never comes out of my car, it just stays in there during the week along with my keyboard player's gear since she is in two of my bands and also my girlfriend. We have a 2011 Ford Transit (one of those small, goofy cargo-vans that you see in cities) that's dedicated almost entirely to gigging, I commute to my day job either by train or motorcycle. So the bigger car led to a bigger amp, or vice-versa. :lol:

I should add that a HUGE part of the reason I went to a rack system was so that I could more easily switch between different basses at a show. I plug my starfire, custom 5-string, P-bass, and sometimes others into one line mixer and spend a couple of minutes before each show making sure that when I pick each one up, they'll all be at equal volumes so I can switch seamlessly. The output of the line mixer goes into the input of my preamp.

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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Phil Lesh101 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:41 am

I wish I had a couple of Eden D410XLT's :smile:

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Four of those would do just fine for my rig! :lol:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV9EGVZio2M
https://archive.org/details/DA2013-10-19
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm

I was thinking about this thread over the weekend.... my 2x10" cab didn't survive it's latest tumble (I am the clumsiest roadie ever) so I've been using just my 1x15" with no tweeter and I don't really mind it.

I have had two good PAs to work with though.... on Saturday's gig I completely forgot to turn the power amp on for Set 2 and didn't even notice for a couple of songs. :lol: So if my amp can do an adequate job when turned off, 225 watts of tube power should be plenty!
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Phil Lesh101 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:32 pm

Can I call that a "Scoob Fail?" :lol:
"I didn't ask them to misspell anything to prove their authenticity, but I believe they're legit." ~ Rusty The Scoob.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV9EGVZio2M
https://archive.org/details/DA2013-10-19
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:31 am

Sure, why not!

The funny part is that Mike (My Jerry) had asked me to turn my stage volume up at setbreak. No problem, I'll just turn the knob louder and totally forget to hit the on switch. :lol:
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby zambiland » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:14 pm

Rusty the Scoob wrote:I was thinking about this thread over the weekend.... my 2x10" cab didn't survive it's latest tumble (I am the clumsiest roadie ever) so I've been using just my 1x15" with no tweeter and I don't really mind it.

I have had two good PAs to work with though.... on Saturday's gig I completely forgot to turn the power amp on for Set 2 and didn't even notice for a couple of songs. :lol: So if my amp can do an adequate job when turned off, 225 watts of tube power should be plenty!


Nice! It's a problem, though, when you get the opposite response. I've been asked to turn down when my amp was off. :?
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Walknbluez » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:13 pm

Hey guys, I'm resurrecting this thread because some buying opportunities have come up. I never made any changes, mainly because the Dead band I was in suddenly disintegrated. I was bummed because I didn't think there were alot of people in my town who play Dead but turns out it was a blessing in disguise because it turns out I was wrong and now I've got several different Dead jam situations which are turning out to be quite fun.

So I still have the same rig. It does the job in most rooms and most situations. The live tone vs. the tone on the recordings I provided is a bit different I think. I would like the high notes to be a little more articulate. The problem is when I increase the EQ on the highs then it loses its smoothnes. But overall, its not a need to switch. It works. But more headroom would be nice. But a cab that can make my current amp sing would be even better. The cab was cheap and I have some dough to spend on a good cab.

So that brings me to a few things I've seen come up. A Bergantino AE410 cab. Occasionally a Bergantino NV610 cab as well as an Eden D410XST and Eden D410XLT and an Eden WT-800 power amp. If not a change in the power amp, I'm definitely looking to step up the quality of my cab, whether it be 12's or 10's. Anybody have any experience with any of these? Can you all update me on the cabs you're using now?
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby BassPlayerLB » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:18 pm

I would highly recommend the Eden 4x10xlt, especially if you can pair it with the wt-800. I bought mine almost a year ago and since then have sold my eden 210xlt, and almost never use my eden 115xlt. Before that I was using the 2x10 and 1x15. Almost every gig now I only bring the 4x10, unless it's a large venue. I'm thinking about getting a second eden 410xlt for those occasions because I love the tone of the one I have now so much.

This is my main rig for playing Grateful Dead now (in addition to a fishman pro bass pre-amp)...

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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Walknbluez » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:52 pm

BassplayerLB, how would you describe the highs with that setup? I have someone who is selling a Bergantino AE410 and I told him I was contemplating between that and Eden cabs and said he has also had Eden cabs but he described the Eden highs as "harsh" (but of course he wants me to buy his cab). What bass do you play? How does that setup work for small gigs when you have to keep volume down?

Do you have any clips of you playing so I can get an idea of how it sounds?
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby BassPlayerLB » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:17 pm

Walknbluez wrote:BassplayerLB, how would you describe the highs with that setup? I have someone who is selling a Bergantino AE410 and I told him I was contemplating between that and Eden cabs and said he has also had Eden cabs but he described the Eden highs as "harsh" (but of course he wants me to buy his cab). What bass do you play? How does that setup work for small gigs when you have to keep volume down?

Do you have any clips of you playing so I can get an idea of how it sounds?


The highs are a little sharper than most cabs, but that's part of what I like about it. It's very crisp and cuts through more than most cabs. It's nothing that can't be tweaked by turning the treble down a tiny bit though, or the tweeter. The EQ knobs on that head are also very sensitive so I usually roll the treble back anywhere from 1 click to setting it at 9 o'clock depending on the tone I'm going for. I use this set up with a custom built 5-string that can be heard here (http://archive.org/details/deye2012-12-31.aud) or with a Gretsch semi-hollow body (for more of an early 70's Phil tone) that can be heard here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0noQLG7Mhdo)

With all that being said, another reason I like this set up is because it is very versatile. I use it for my Dead band but I also use it for my upright when playing jazz as well and get a much rounder tone with a lot more low end.
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Walknbluez » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:42 am

Nice playing! The sound in that video came through real nice. That's the tone I'm looking for but then again I don't have a Gretsch semi-hollow body :-P Sounds like the Eden gear is real versatile.
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby Walknbluez » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:39 am

BassplayerLB, do you ever have a problem with the Eden going into thermal shutdown? I've read about this on some of the Eden WT-800 heads that were manufactured before they improved the cooling system.
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Re: P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

Postby BassPlayerLB » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:08 am

Walknbluez wrote:BassplayerLB, do you ever have a problem with the Eden going into thermal shutdown? I've read about this on some of the Eden WT-800 heads that were manufactured before they improved the cooling system.


I bought mine back in August of 2011 used from Guitar Center and I think it's one of the models before they improved it. I have never had any issue with it going into thermal shutdown. It does get pretty hot, and for awhile it concerned me, but at this point I stopped worrying about it since it hasn't happened yet. I also push it pretty hard usually. I've used it to power 3 cabs for an entire 2 set GD show pushing it almost to it's limit multiple times and had no problem at all! I have read similar things about these heads but I guess I got lucky.
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