Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby zambiland » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:15 pm

ugly rumor wrote:I have used Meyer for a number of years, and can attest that there is NOTHING like them. I use a 15 in a Fender cabinet, and couple with a 4 X 10 Hughes and Kettner (Eminence), and the tone is incredible with my Gibson RD-77 Artist. No other effects, Thunderfunk amp, all I need. A Meyer speaker is about 25% heavier than most comparable speakers, and I have been looking for a Thiele Electro-Voice cabinet to try to lose weight, if there is no sacrifice in tone.


An EV style Thiele cab won't sound anything like a Meyer. It's a completely different beast, very much a midrangey cabinet and isn't much lighter in comparison to the amount of low end you'll get. If you want to go lighter and retain some of the hifi sound, the only one I've heard do it is the fEARful. Last night at the Boulder Theater my rig was the backline and bass player after bass player raved about the sound (The F2B and Grace M103 didn't hurt).

Check it at http://greenboy.us/
The forums there are great. There are also a bunch of other designs Greenboy has done that are discussed in the forums and a few of them look very interesting.
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby Phil Lesh101 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:46 pm

The bottom is 2x18's that's all I know. At CMAC on July 6th this year he has the grill off of it and you could see the speakers.
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby spacebassed » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:46 pm

zambiland wrote:On a somewhat different note, it looks like he has Q-tuner pickups in the Modulus. Interesting.



Are you sure those are Q-Tuner pickups? I thought Q-Tuner's were funky looking, with a clear housing? I've been trying to figure out what new pickups he's currently using since they appeared, but haven't had any luck - they're definitely not EMG DC's.
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby Phil Lesh101 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:11 am

spacebassed wrote:
zambiland wrote:On a somewhat different note, it looks like he has Q-tuner pickups in the Modulus. Interesting.



Are you sure those are Q-Tuner pickups? I thought Q-Tuner's were funky looking, with a clear housing? I've been trying to figure out what new pickups he's currently using since they appeared, but haven't had any luck - they're definitely not EMG DC's.


I can't say if they are or if they are not Q-tuners...

Image

Image
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https://archive.org/details/DA2013-10-19
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby spacebassed » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:35 am

I'll be damned - those are definitely Q-tuners. He must have switched again, the pickups he was using were 4 bolt (like a Bartolini), but had the manufacturers name in the lower right hand corner of the pickup (like Delano's or EMG's). When are those pics from?
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby Phil Lesh101 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:22 am

The top one is from July Phil Lesh and Friends at All good, the second I am unaware. He has 2 different basses one with these pickups and one with the EMG's. I have noticed that he is using the one with Q-tuners for almost every show these days.

Q-tuner -

Image

EMG 6/7/11 -

Image
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:27 am

He's got the new EMG X series, too, interesting. EMG says they have "increased headroom", whatever that means. My P has an EMG PAX in it, but I also have a PA that I'll probably test out.

I haven't played the Q-tuners, but I've been tempted to try a set in my 5-string for a while. Anyone used them yet?
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby Phil Lesh101 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:28 pm

I like the tone he is getting while using them that's all I know, it could be mostly his mac-book but who knows.
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby Sparechaynge » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:59 pm

Phil Would use Q's. Damn things are like trying to track down some Dark Stars - hard to find and expensive when you do.

Oh, Phil. Well, at least he's still The Man.
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby kaos » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:04 am

So I managed to catch the NYE show, anyone else catch it?

It's been a *very* long time since I've seen Phil and he's gone through many changes in his rig, but I have to say I felt the sound wasn't what I remember. Now it could be the PA because I wasn't close enough to hear his rig directly, but generally the low end lacked the huge rumble and depth that I remember from the late 80s and early 90s. Overall I didn't really like the mix they were getting out of their line array system. I took a break and went into one of the side rooms and have to say the mix fed to their UPA-1s sounded MUCH better. Phil's midrange and low mid were much more defined and clearer sounding, also the guitars and vocals were far less harsh sounding and the keys weren't as overblown. I guess I'm not a fan of the line array PA setup? Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Part of the issue may just be the way the subs for the system were configured. For the BG Civic they had a total of 12 700HP subs, 6 on either side of the stage, in two ground stacks, three high. I remember back in the day Dan Healy typically had 18 650s, hung in vertical lines 9 high on either side of the stage. When he got it dialed in, his mixes always sounded fantastic to me. According to Meyer, as configured, the systems should have equivalent sub power, but it sure didn't seem so. I don't know if they were working around some imposed volume limitations or if it was mix engineering preferences but it seemed to lack the character and intensity I remember from before. What's your opinion?
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby Sparechaynge » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:52 pm

I have seen Furthur/Phil a bunch or times at a few different places and I have to say I do not like their sound, live or recorded. While I wasn't at any Dead shows, hearing the new setup makes me love the 68-74 sound even more. Phil is too muddy, Bobby is too clangy and too quiet, and Joe and JK are way too loud. A shame too, this is the best post-95 lineup ever, IMO.
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby Phil Lesh101 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:16 pm

I think their mix is fine but I have seen 2 shows within a week and the first one everything was muddy and then the next week everything was crisp and this was 2012 summer. I like their sound and I like them a lot actually I'm just not sure if they change anything when they go from one venue to the next.
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby Sparechaynge » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:45 pm

I love the band, don't get me wrong, but I just wish they sounded clearer. Spring/Summer 2012 was the best I have heard yet. The first shows in 2009 sounded better to my ears, less "cloudy" by far.

It may just be the venues, as per your observation, but I don't think that would impact the recordings too much.
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby kaos » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:01 pm

Phil Lesh101: Each venue alters sound, and it's almost always in different ways. There are also typically differences in speaker position as well as equalization changes required as a result of the physical and ambient characteristics of the venue. The internal volume (space) of an indoor venue can have a profound impact on the sound due to reflection, resonance and absorption; even the audience presence changes the sound. In outdoor venues sound is influenced by weather, temperature and even altitude. Beyond simple mixing, a large part of FOH sound reinforcement is attempting to mitigate the adverse impact of environments. Even in the same venue the sound can change night after night due to humidity and other variables, so things are always in a state of flux. Keeping up with these ever changing variables is an art. It's what makes the difference between stelar sound, and just adequate or worse. As the saying goes "when you do your job correctly no one even notices. When you make a mistake, everyone knows."
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Re: Phil at TXR: No more Eden cabs?

Postby zambiland » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:53 pm

kaos wrote:So I managed to catch the NYE show, anyone else catch it?

I guess I'm not a fan of the line array PA setup? Anyone else have an opinion on this?


As I've stated before in these forums, I think the way line arrays are used most of the time is not effective. They are like the mp3 of live sound. The improvements they offer are not always about better sound but increased convenience for the people in charge of distributing the sound and therefore higher profit margins. From my point of view, the most effective part of having a line array is in the low end, which is the part that is almost never done. Line arrays can sound good, but more often than not, to my ear, they don't.
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