2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby strumminsix » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:11 am

First to the flatwounds. WOW is all I can say. I will never string a guitar I will use for rhythm, especially Weir stuff, with anything else.

I used the D'Addario ECG23's. At $10 a pop they are expensive but they are really worth it to me. They really attenuate the bass frequencies quite nicely but leave you with a very rich lower mids! The flatwould G was a surprise to my fingers. While I'm not sure I love it, I don't hate it. I think that is one of the keys to ensuring a healthy dose of mids.

From there I've been experimenting with compression. I've been keeping it around 3:1 ration, quick attack (not fast), moderate release (not slow), then about a 2.5db boost and then roll into the threshold so I hit unity gain with a good full A chord strum off the 5th. It's allow my rhythm volume to be VERY even, my extra hard Bobby vamps just put me a smidge higher in the mix and most importantly, and the reason I am experimenting with this, is that helps single note Bobby runs step up in the mix just above my rhythm.

My bandmates were all impressed. They said they loved it. Haven't heard that universal approval on anything. Usually 1 or 2 really dig it and the others don't hear it.
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:25 am

I have never thought about what kind of string Bob uses.
Does he use flatwounds ?
I always assumed they were bigger than regular strings ; or do they come in the same gauge as regular strings ?
Sounds like you are liking them .....
Does this mean wangy bar Bob riffs are out ?
:smile:
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby strumminsix » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:35 am

Tennessee Jedi wrote:I have never thought about what kind of string Bob uses.
Does he use flatwounds ?
I always assumed they were bigger than regular strings ; or do they come in the same gauge as regular strings ?
Sounds like you are liking them .....
Does this mean wangy bar Bob riffs are out ?
:smile:


Yes, he uses flatwounds.

They come in similar gauges. My guitar strung up just fine and didn't need my intonation adjusted.

I'm lovin' 'em!

I don't have a good fine touch for the whammy bar. I can better finesse it with a hand vibrato.....
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby jdsmodulus » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:34 am

what comp did you go with? Ive been thinking of dbx or behringer. I also use pre>power>speakers set up and have wondered about this for a while. My ue has a comp/limiter and I do use that I just thought why not get a rack comp. hmmmm?
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby Highballin' » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:38 am

This sounds interesting. I've considered flatwounds before, and I was wondering what compression does. After reading this and other posts, I wanna try this exact set-up Strumminsix.
How can I get some compression for a cheap price? :smile:

I just have a guitar and amp. Would like to keep it simple- with say.... a pedal. Whats a good one?
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby strumminsix » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:53 am

jdsmodulus wrote:what comp did you go with? Ive been thinking of dbx or behringer. I also use pre>power>speakers set up and have wondered about this for a while. My ue has a comp/limiter and I do use that I just thought why not get a rack comp. hmmmm?

I went with the Presonus Eureka:
Image

I have 1U of rack space available and didn't both an EQ & Comp. This baby is a breeze to get setup! The only trick is that is is expecting line level on the back. Therefore the comp's threshold is setup a bit differently and the VU shows very low settings for general output. However, selecting Gain Reduction on the VU is fabulous! It properly shows exactly what gets limited!

I'm also still defining my wiring scheme with it... When I run my regular stage rig I want it to be first. However, when I run my direct rig I want to start using my rack and make it last and use it's XLR output to the board!

Highballin' - don't know about comp pedals. I'm sure they are cheaper!
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby Highballin' » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:18 pm

Roger that Strummin'. :peas:
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:27 pm

I think the flatwound factor is the #1 Bob Weir guitar tone factor, above all other variables.

Chorus is optional depending on the era. Compression is also optional. Various amps, preamps, guitars, pickups, speakers, but the flatwound thing, as I understand it, has been his #1 constant for the longest stretch of time.

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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby strumminsix » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:36 pm

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:I think the flatwound factor is the #1 Bob Weir guitar tone factor, above all other variables.

Chorus is optional depending on the era. Compression is also optional. Various amps, preamps, guitars, pickups, speakers, but the flatwound thing, as I understand it, has been his #1 constant for the longest stretch of time.

Brad


Brad, I never thought in a million years I would say this but I agree and will just put it out there now... Flatwounds are the #1 thing to Bobby's tone. I can probably cop about 90% of what any guitarist needs to do Bobby right with just my guitar strung with flatwounds. Mind you my guitar is modified (jackson soloist with pearly gates neck & bridge, mini toggles for series, parallel, single, and push pull pot for out of phase)

I really couldn't believe it.

I've looked for that elusive amp or guitar or pickup or EQ or channel or pedal or something to allow me to have tons of low mids without much bass. Of course I learned tons and am grateful for the journey and while I did still try other strings never the flatwounds since I didn't think they would make that much of a difference.
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby FretfulDave » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:39 pm

strumminsix wrote:First to the flatwounds. WOW is all I can say. I will never string a guitar I will use for rhythm, especially Weir stuff, with anything else.

I used the D'Addario ECG23's. ... The flatwould G was a surprise to my fingers.

From there I've been experimenting with compression.



Strummin, so what weight strings? I used flatwounds when I first started playing guitar. The third string being wound is a bit different and I thought they sounded very deep and "jazzy". But that was 38 years ago. I am sure things have changed since. The gauges were pretty heavy back then and they are not great to play lead with, if one has a need for that.

Highballin' wrote: and I was wondering what compression does. ?


I think compression basically evens out the peaks and lows of the guitar signal amplitude, i.e., the overall output signal to the amp remains very even after compression and you get some extra sustain at the price of the dynamic range you would normally get depending on how hard you pick and strum (no pun intended Strummin... :P ). But I am sure there are folks who can comment more thoroughly on the matter or correct me if I have misspoken.

Good info. Interesting thread.

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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby strumminsix » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:53 pm

FretfulDave wrote:
strumminsix wrote:First to the flatwounds. WOW is all I can say. I will never string a guitar I will use for rhythm, especially Weir stuff, with anything else.

I used the D'Addario ECG23's. ... The flatwould G was a surprise to my fingers.

From there I've been experimenting with compression.



Strummin, so what weight strings? I used flatwounds when I first started playing guitar. The third string being wound is a bit different and I thought they sounded very deep and "jazzy". But that was 38 years ago. I am sure things have changed since. The gauges were pretty heavy back then and they are not great to play lead with, if one has a need for that.

Highballin' wrote: and I was wondering what compression does. ?


I think compression basically evens out the peaks and lows of the guitar signal amplitude, i.e., the overall output signal to the amp remains very even after compression and you get some extra sustain at the price of the dynamic range you would normally get depending on how hard you pick and strum (no pun intended Strummin... :P ). But I am sure there are folks who can comment more thoroughly on the matter or correct me if I have misspoken.

Good info. Interesting thread.

Dave


Dave, the ECG23s are 10s. The low E is just slightly larger, very slightly. I'd say they are slightly more mellow but not dark.

Sorry, missed the compression. It's a tough concept and varies from pedal to studio. Dave's is a good start

Here are some key components on this unit:
Threshold = what db you need to cross for compession to begin
Ratio = the # of db increase on the input to introduce 1db increase on the output
Attack = how reactive the unit is to starting the compression
Release = how quickly the units releases compression
Gain = think of it as make-up gain to bring your signal back up

Dynamics are really ruled by threshold & ratio
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby Highballin' » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:55 pm

No Dave, that sounds like a good enough answer, and it corrolates to what else I've heard here.
This is definitely something I want to expiriment with. just wondering what a good way to go would be. Cheap obviously. $100 bucks or less.Roundabout.
I am interested as you also mentioned in any effects on the guitar due to flatwounds. I have an SG and a Heavy Neck Strat. I'm thinking put them on the Strat? :smile:
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby tigerstrat » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:13 pm

Highballin' wrote:This is definitely something I want to expiriment with. just wondering what a good way to go would be. Cheap obviously. $100 bucks or less.


Google is your friend: "compressor guitar $100" yields https://secure.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165056

If you can solder: http://buildyourownclone.com/5knobcompressor.html : $98.99
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby Stevo123 » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:17 pm

Yeah flatwounds are huge and I've been hooked on them myself lately. The one's I've been using are chrome and pretty thick, like 12s or 13s. They sound beautiful and I've been able to get some decent Bobbyish tones lately, especially with the mods I did to my guitar for series/parallel/out of phase. I'm gonna be looking into getting a good compressor real soon.
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Re: 2 new upgrades to my Bobby rig flatwounds & compressor

Postby Scott Bardolf » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:01 pm

I second that, WOW! Picked up some D'Addario XL Chromes ECG24 Jazz Light .011's..... I'll never use another string! Was playing the slow version of Friend of the Devil, that Weir lead in between Brent and Jerry..... He does some cool pull offs, hammer ons, open notes etc....It all sounds so crisp, no fret buzz or string buzz, a piece of the puzzle for Weirs sound, for sure. Add a little flesh to the string, presto! Thanks for the tip!! :cool:
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