Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby lovetoboogie » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:38 am

Interesting to note that Weir was still using the 2681 well into 1977...

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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby strumminsix » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:24 pm

mkaufman wrote:24 frets? Although he used 24.75 and 25.5 scale lengths, I don't think Bob ever used 24 frets on an Ibanez, except for the Musician which doesn't count.

I don't care about the # of frets. If you analyze 24 fret guitars you'll see that the neck pickup is closer to the bridge vs a 21 or 22 fret guitar. This has it under a different harmonic (so I'm told) has the neck more rounded and less bassy.

Dozin wrote:And what do you mean by using the EQ for cutting?

vs boosting. get some of the bass out and stay strong in the low-mids. common theme with his tone.
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby JDB30 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:33 pm

lovetoboogie wrote:It's worth noting that Weir used his heavily modified Ibanez 2681 for all but 5 of the 41 gigs with the Dead in 1976, as well as Kingfish gigs. The guitar bears little resemblance to the production model. Among other things; the sliding single coil to address Weir's obsession with phase proximity, coil cut switches for the Ibanez humbuckers, an on-off switch for both humbuckers to isolate just the single coil...what that guitar did not have was active electronics, or an active EQ. It was a rudimentary passive tone circuit similar to a Gibson Varitone with extra tone pots....


Hi,

Can you please define what you mean by "phase proximity"? I've yet to hear that expression and would like to try to understand what you're referring to.

Thanks,

JB
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby mkaufman » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:46 pm

I understand that your 24-fret preference pertains to pickup location. It just seems to me that you're preferring something that Weir didn't have.

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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby Dozin » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:15 pm

Dozin wrote:And what do you mean by using the EQ for cutting?

vs boosting. get some of the bass out and stay strong in the low-mids. common theme with his tone.[/quote]

I think the magic is in the gain control because it does boost the signal.
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby lovetoboogie » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:03 pm

JDB30 wrote:
lovetoboogie wrote:It's worth noting that Weir used his heavily modified Ibanez 2681 for all but 5 of the 41 gigs with the Dead in 1976, as well as Kingfish gigs. The guitar bears little resemblance to the production model. Among other things; the sliding single coil to address Weir's obsession with phase proximity, coil cut switches for the Ibanez humbuckers, an on-off switch for both humbuckers to isolate just the single coil...what that guitar did not have was active electronics, or an active EQ. It was a rudimentary passive tone circuit similar to a Gibson Varitone with extra tone pots....


Hi,

Can you please define what you mean by "phase proximity"? I've yet to hear that expression and would like to try to understand what you're referring to.

Thanks,

JB


The single coil is out of phase to the humbucker. From a pickup tech point of view this is kind of frowned upon. Weir took advantage of the thinner, scooped out tone of out of phase pups and ran with it. By experimenting with the position/proximity of the single-coil to the humbucker it really changes the magnetic field of both pups, and how they respond to the harmonic nodes along the scale length... Jeff Hasselberger, who developed and marketed some of Ibanez's greatest instruments, speaks fondly of spending time with Weir in the shop and at his house. Taking apart guitars, putting them back together...using masking tape to hold the single coil in place!
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby waldo041 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:19 pm

lovetoboogie wrote:
JDB30 wrote:
lovetoboogie wrote:It's worth noting that Weir used his heavily modified Ibanez 2681 for all but 5 of the 41 gigs with the Dead in 1976, as well as Kingfish gigs. The guitar bears little resemblance to the production model. Among other things; the sliding single coil to address Weir's obsession with phase proximity, coil cut switches for the Ibanez humbuckers, an on-off switch for both humbuckers to isolate just the single coil...what that guitar did not have was active electronics, or an active EQ. It was a rudimentary passive tone circuit similar to a Gibson Varitone with extra tone pots....


Hi,

Can you please define what you mean by "phase proximity"? I've yet to hear that expression and would like to try to understand what you're referring to.

Thanks,

JB


The single coil is out of phase to the humbucker. From a pickup tech point of view this is kind of frowned upon. Weir took advantage of the thinner, scooped out tone of out of phase pups and ran with it. By experimenting with the position/proximity of the single-coil to the humbucker it really changes the magnetic field of both pups, and how they respond to the harmonic nodes along the scale length... Jeff Hasselberger, who developed and marketed some of Ibanez's greatest instruments, speaks fondly of spending time with Weir in the shop and at his house. Taking apart guitars, putting them back together...using masking tape to hold the single coil in place!


Exactly, I might add that the distance between pickups when used together also increases and/or decreases total output. As you bring the pickups closer the output response increases. As you spread them further from each other the output decreases. So naturally using them out of phase with each other and having the ability to adjust the output could create different tonal responses.

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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby JDB30 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:58 pm

[/quote]

The single coil is out of phase to the humbucker. From a pickup tech point of view this is kind of frowned upon. Weir took advantage of the thinner, scooped out tone of out of phase pups and ran with it. By experimenting with the position/proximity of the single-coil to the humbucker it really changes the magnetic field of both pups, and how they respond to the harmonic nodes along the scale length... Jeff Hasselberger, who developed and marketed some of Ibanez's greatest instruments, speaks fondly of spending time with Weir in the shop and at his house. Taking apart guitars, putting them back together...using masking tape to hold the single coil in place![/quote

Exactly, I might add that the distance between pickups when used together also increases and/or decreases total output. As you bring the pickups closer the output response increases. As you spread them further from each other the output decreases. So naturally using them out of phase with each other and having the ability to adjust the output could create different tonal responses.

~waldo[/quote]

Hey Waldo, Thanks for that. I do understand the idea of phase (I have 2 guitars with a middle pickup wired out of phase with the 2 humbuckers). What I'm trying to understand is the concept of phase PROXIMITY---obviously, the placement of the pickups will increase or decrease sensitivity to certain harmonic overtones but does the distance of the middle pickup from the humbuckers actually have an effect how much (or little) out of phase the middle pickup is with the HB's?
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby strumminsix » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:10 am

mkaufman wrote:I understand that your 24-fret preference pertains to pickup location. It just seems to me that you're preferring something that Weir didn't have.

mk

That floating single coil pushed against the neck pickup is in the same spot as taping single coil of the neck pickup in the position I'm suggesting.

I don't disagree that it's not what he used. What I'm saying is that it helps to get the tone. To me, accurate tone is > than accurate gear.
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby Smolder » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:35 am

To be a chef, you need to do more than follow the recipe. No matter how good the recipe.
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby strumminsix » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:27 pm

Smolder wrote:To be a chef, you need to do more than follow the recipe. No matter how good the recipe.

AMEN! Over and over I've found with Weir that so much is in his voicing (left hand) and attack (right hand). Then you need to ensure you dial out bass yet keep low-mids along with strong presence but avoid harsh treble (EQ). And there are many ways to get there.
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby Dozin » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:06 pm

Agree, with all the technique analogies. I think as Weir players we get that. However, it's a lot more fun when your nailing the tone. I find it far more easier to start with the recipe especially if you're following the subject line.
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby strumminsix » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:37 pm

Dozin wrote:Agree, with all the technique analogies. I think as Weir players we get that. However, it's a lot more fun when your nailing the tone. I find it far more easier to start with the recipe especially if you're following the subject line.

I agree that it's a lot more fun when you're nailing that tone you seek! I've played Weir gear (UE700, UE400, UE405, RM150, IVP, etc, etc) and had guitars modeled after his and with all those times when following the recipe I found myself further. My search was over when I got my first full custom, semi-hollow, dual minis, neck positioned like a 24 fret, tapped switches, pull pot OOP, ebony fingerboard, mahogany neck, ash body. Sheer perfection for me. Mates well with Vibroverb, SMS or Fargen Deluxe Reverb.
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby JDB30 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:33 pm

strumminsix wrote:
Dozin wrote:Agree, with all the technique analogies. I think as Weir players we get that. However, it's a lot more fun when your nailing the tone. I find it far more easier to start with the recipe especially if you're following the subject line.

I agree that it's a lot more fun when you're nailing that tone you seek! I've played Weir gear (UE700, UE400, UE405, RM150, IVP, etc, etc) and had guitars modeled after his and with all those times when following the recipe I found myself further. My search was over when I got my first full custom, semi-hollow, dual minis, neck positioned like a 24 fret, tapped switches, pull pot OOP, ebony fingerboard, mahogany neck, ash body. Sheer perfection for me. Mates well with Vibroverb, SMS or Fargen Deluxe Reverb.


Can you show us a photo of the guitar, please?
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Re: Basic mid 70s gear (76 in particular)

Postby strumminsix » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:46 am

JDB30 wrote:
strumminsix wrote:
Dozin wrote:Agree, with all the technique analogies. I think as Weir players we get that. However, it's a lot more fun when your nailing the tone. I find it far more easier to start with the recipe especially if you're following the subject line.

I agree that it's a lot more fun when you're nailing that tone you seek! I've played Weir gear (UE700, UE400, UE405, RM150, IVP, etc, etc) and had guitars modeled after his and with all those times when following the recipe I found myself further. My search was over when I got my first full custom, semi-hollow, dual minis, neck positioned like a 24 fret, tapped switches, pull pot OOP, ebony fingerboard, mahogany neck, ash body. Sheer perfection for me. Mates well with Vibroverb, SMS or Fargen Deluxe Reverb.


Can you show us a photo of the guitar, please?

http://www.ricecustomguitars.com/instru ... serial=161

Video on there is day1 thru his amps, not mine.
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