New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby waldo041 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:52 pm

had to plug brads newest user.
copied from the gearheads group.

hope you don't mind brad! :cool:


If anyone has a chance to listen to last night's St. Louis Fox Theater Phish
show (6/16/09), you can hear Trey using the SMS Classic Tube Preamp all night
long. Using a Boogie (fx return jack to directly access the power amp, and set
at 1/2 power) into a Bruno cabinet. He tried it at soundcheck, and within
minutes was installing it into his rig as a permanent fixture. He was set up to
toggle between his vintage rig (Boogie head into that old 2-12 Vintage 30 cab)
and this new setup with the SMS Classic. It was quite different hearing the AB
comparison. Imagine Trey's natural sound, but with a much more SRV/Garcia candy
sweet top end and a more clear and open midrange. He seemed to really be diggin
it and was pretty enthusiastic after the show too. He never switched to the old
rig for the whole show. SMS Classic all night long. They ordered a second one as
a backup.

Brad


and the link from first set.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qkgofr

again, congrats!

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby Emoto » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:07 pm

This is pretty cool. Brad has certainly shown himself here and on gearheads to be very open and generous about sharing information and thoughts about sound and chasing tone and construction of amps, and has also (IMHO) demonstrated a true love of great music. This is the kind of person who I want to support in business, so I hope that the Trey thing boosts his sales in a big way.

Bob
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:57 pm

Cheers, Brad!
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby Capt Rosebuddy » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:29 pm

Brad,
Congratulations man, that is a fantastic achievement!! I've been lucky enough to see two Phish shows on the most recent tour and I was so pleased to see Trey using the Mesa and one of the old 2x12's again and his tone was a big improvement over the last shows I caught back in '03. But this might be even better, I was also very lucky to get an invite to try out the SMS Pre at Vic's studio and really liked it. I may have to kick down for the live phish downloads to take a listen (not to mention that the set list was killer!!) That's very cool man and at the crown jewel venue in STL, and the IT show of the tour. kudos. if you have the free time Brad, I'd love to hear the scoop as to how this came together, again big ups man!

-Andrew
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby paulinnc » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:17 pm

I am just curious as to how you would go about getting in touch with a musician, such as Trey to try out a piece of gear. Do just send him an email or contact his management?
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby waldo041 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:39 pm

hey, how's he playing those amps with nothing in the inputs?

Image

that's the classic, not in the rack but on top, no?

Image

peace,
waldo
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:50 pm

Thanks for all the kind support guys. Seriously.

It's quite a thrill for Trey to have taken such a liking to the sound of the pre last night. I really don't know if it'll stick, but time will tell. Great photos you got there. Yeah, that's the SMS sitting on top of that little rack to the left. It's feeding the rear "effects return" jack of that back Boogie head. They did put the SMS in the rack, but the proximity of power transformers and the CAE router below was adding some noise. So they're gonna reconfigure the rack arrangement I guess. For the show, they just pulled it back out and taped it down to the top of that rack.

It's so funny to me. I got there and was honestly thrilled to see Trey using his vintage rig with that old 2-12" Vintage 30 cab from the '80s, his Boogie head, the Ross comp, the 2 tube screamers, the Alesis 'verb, that old Trey tone I just love. But I can't say I was disappointed that he chose to use my preamp instead. It was very cool to hear him toggle between the two rigs at soundcheck. Very different sound. The Boogie pre into his Vintage 30 cab had that familiar, super warm, dense midrange sound. The SMS Classic into the Boogie power into the Bruno cab was just way more clear, and just juicy sweet in the treble by comparison. I felt like it retained that nuanced and expressive style he's got, but really added a presence and a 3D factor. The top end clarity was very Jerry to my ears. I sort of felt like the Trey tone got a cool dose of SRV and Garcia added to his sound with that rig. I'd never quite heard the Languedoc guitar sparkle like that.

Brad

Here are some pic's I took.
TreyRackSMSclassic.jpg
TreyRackSMSclassic.jpg (76.47 KiB) Viewed 977 times

Trey's_Pedals_L.jpg
Trey's_Pedals_L.jpg (109.47 KiB) Viewed 976 times

Trey's_Pedals_R.jpg
Trey's_Pedals_R.jpg (108.73 KiB) Viewed 979 times
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:04 pm

paulinnc wrote:I am just curious as to how you would go about getting in touch with a musician, such as Trey to try out a piece of gear. Do just send him an email or contact his management?


I've actually been seeing them since '90 or '91, cant' remember exactly. I'd gotten to know Mike and some crew a little bit over the years thru common acquaintances. I just let him know that I had some tube preamps that he may want to take a look at, and he seemed interested and had my wife and I come on down in the afternoon before the show. We had no intention to actually go hook the stuff up and check it out. It was more a visit and to show him what I was up to in the gear design/making department. The Trey thing was a total surprise. He lit up with curiosity when I described the SMS Classic to him and how it was modeled after Garcia's preamp, and then he was pretty gung-ho to go out to the stage and hook it up and give a listen. He really kind of lit up over the whole thing. Needless to say it was a thrill and a shocker to watch the day and evening unfold the way it did.

And of course the icing on the cake at the end of the night was seeing Steve Kimock right across town playing till 2:30am. It was a major convergence in St. Louis. We had Blueground Undergrass, Great American Taxi (with Edwin Hurwitz), Kimock, and Phish all in one night and all within about 3 miles of eachother. Very weird. Very fun.

Brad
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:20 pm

more pic's

Mike trying out the Revelation Tube Preamp thru his "Phil" rig.
Mike-RevelationPre.jpg
Mike-RevelationPre.jpg (66.48 KiB) Viewed 585 times



Trey first trying the SMS Classic.
TreyTestingClassic.jpg
TreyTestingClassic.jpg (77.18 KiB) Viewed 587 times


Trey showin some skin to the family during sound check.
TreyFlashing.jpg
TreyFlashing.jpg (76.79 KiB) Viewed 584 times
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby jester536 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:28 am

Lets preface this with the fact that I'm an idiot and I don't understand anything about sound. You guys are saying Trey is using a Boogie...I've got a Boogie...a MarkIV combo. Is there a way that I would go about using the preamp in conjunction with my Boogie or am I looking to get a preamp...and a new poweramp...and a new cabinet.
I'm really interested in SMS Classic...it sounds like it provides the tone I'm looking for but don't know how to integrate it into my playing. Any help??? Remember...I understand NOTHING about sound reinforcement.
Thanks,
John
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby Emoto » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:35 am

jester536 wrote:Lets preface this with the fact that I'm an idiot and I don't understand anything about sound. You guys are saying Trey is using a Boogie...I've got a Boogie...a MarkIV combo. Is there a way that I would go about using the preamp in conjunction with my Boogie or am I looking to get a preamp...and a new poweramp...and a new cabinet.
I'm really interested in SMS Classic...it sounds like it provides the tone I'm looking for but don't know how to integrate it into my playing. Any help??? Remember...I understand NOTHING about sound reinforcement.
Thanks,
John



You plug your guitar cord into the SMS input jack. The output of the SMS goes into the Boogie effects loop return. This subsitutes the SMS for the Boogie pre-amp section. Whatever speaker(s) you are now playing through will be unchanged.
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:05 am

Yeah, what Emoto said. You can use your Boogie strictly as a power amp this way.

Brad
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:51 am

You can also do the reverse: feed your Boogie preamp FX Send out to an external power amp (and remove the Boogie's power tubes, esp if disconnecting the speaker load) but iirc a dummy plug needs to be inserted into the FX Send for this to work.
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby jester536 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:29 am

You plug your guitar cord into the SMS input jack. The output of the SMS goes into the Boogie effects loop return. This subsitutes the SMS for the Boogie pre-amp section. Whatever speaker(s) you are now playing through will be unchanged.[/quote]
Sorry guys...
So there is nothing plugged into the guitar input in the front of the amp? Another thing...if the Boogie has a preamp section...what is the benefit of replacing it with the SMS? I'm also getting a new guitar with the effects loop wired like the Tiger...would this change anything...ie...do I want the preamp in the loop?
Thanks for your patience guys. With a great deal of help from all the kind contributors here ... someday I might understand half of what the heck you guys are talking about.
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Re: New Tube Preamp for Jerry Tone

Postby playingdead » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:32 am

Using the SMS as the preamp bypasses the Boogie's preamp, so nothing gets plugged into the front of the Boogie.

The point to changing the preamp is the different sound ... they would be very different.

The effects loop is for things like stompboxes, delays, and so forth. You wouldn't want to send the preamp tone through the guitar's electronics out to a power amp, it would sound awful.

Basic chain with the effects loop

Effects loop out -> your pedals -> effects loop in -> main guitar out -> preamp -> power amp -> speakers
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