Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby shadowboxer » Fri May 26, 2017 8:59 am

What's the worst you've heard? I ask because I was listening to Dicks Picks Vol 35, 8-7-71. It may be a fine performance, but I found Jerry's sound to be so overbearing that I can't enjoy it. Anyone else have similar experiences?
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby caspersvapors » Fri May 26, 2017 12:52 pm

interesting, because I love his 71 tone. Nice fat Gibson tones in that era.

I am personally not too fond of his clean sounds in the 90s or his ~1980ish distortions sounds when Tiger still had the Dimarzio Dual Sounds - bright and harsh imo
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby tatittle » Fri May 26, 2017 8:18 pm

I am not a big fan of the pre-1969 Jerry tones (or really the surf-pop repertoire on the way out at that period of time). Those are likely Guild or P90s straight into Twin tones. Same tone that turned me off big blackface Fenders at lower volume for years myself. Actually not a bad rig if you have the jazz level melodic sense to make it all about delicate melody instead of trying to dig in rock style. Garcia style still wasn't fully formed at that time imo either, so he prolly woulda sounded fine with that rig a few years later. Likewise I'm not a huge fan of the whole Boss overdrive pedal tones in general (I always prefer tube amp distortion to pedals etc), but he sure made em sound excellent most of the time. I still subscribe that more to his rhythmic/harmonic/melodic sense than the actual tone though. Almost a necy trade of for the clean tones he was going for at that time I guess.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby Searing75 » Sat May 27, 2017 3:11 pm

Most definitely his tone when he went direct, and lost the twin, mac, JBL on stage!
All's well that sounds well.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby PurpleTrails » Sat May 27, 2017 3:38 pm

Searing75 wrote:Most definitely his tone when he went direct, and lost the twin, mac, JBL on stage!


I'm not sure if the relative bad quality of sound at the end was caused more by the equipment stealing his signature tone or the simple fact that he was dying on stage in front of us. His rig was always designed to respond to the nuances of his playing, and the last couple of years his chops definitely seemed to diminish. In '94-95 it seemed like he had been sort of buried in the mix a lot of the time, probably because he wasn't playing all that well compared to the rest of the band.

I think I would vote for some of the real early shows in '66-67, though it's hard to say with those how much of it was due to the sound system being designed by a mad scientist, the primitive nature of the recording techniques and technology being used, or that the performances we have from then are from places like the Matrix which typically were not that great acoustically.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby healthy_scratch » Wed May 31, 2017 7:48 am

The tinny tone that came about in mid 93 and I believe the Lightning bolt guitar may have been the guilty party but not sure. I last saw shows at the Knick in 93 and did not notice it then, I think on spring tour he was still playing the Saint. I do not remember so much of my final GD shows at the Palace in Summer 93, but I know by fall tour he was using it. Not sure what happened but all the warmth of Tiger in particular and as well the Saint by Doug Irwin on his clean tone to these ears just disappeared. I mean I know the decline in the quality of the playing coincides with this time as well as poor Jer was in decline at that time as well, but the tone is absolutely ass on Lightning Bolt thin and synthetic.

I loved the growl of Tiger and Summer 89 was its last hurrah with the GD which is one of my fave tours. The Saint was not bad but it of course was MIDI enabled and I was never a big fan of the MIDI though appreciate it appears to have re-ignited the whole bands fun with technology. Give me that clean sound of JG on Tiger with his Mutron, Delay and MXR distortion used accordingly where appropriate over the MIDI. I did like his adventures with the Whammy Digitech pedal too. He was stomping the hell out of that I first caught it at the 1991 New Years run and it was the last Garcia tone that I enjoyed.

Worst live tone 93 - 95 when using the Lightning Bolt guitar. I can forgive tone 65 - 66 just warming up.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby Searing75 » Wed May 31, 2017 9:29 am

healthy_scratch wrote:The tinny tone that came about in mid 93 and I believe the Lightning bolt guitar may have been the guilty party but not sure. I last saw shows at the Knick in 93 and did not notice it then, I think on spring tour he was still playing the Saint. I do not remember so much of my final GD shows at the Palace in Summer 93, but I know by fall tour he was using it. Not sure what happened but all the warmth of Tiger in particular and as well the Saint by Doug Irwin on his clean tone to these ears just disappeared. I mean I know the decline in the quality of the playing coincides with this time as well as poor Jer was in decline at that time as well, but the tone is absolutely ass on Lightning Bolt thin and synthetic.

I loved the growl of Tiger and Summer 89 was its last hurrah with the GD which is one of my fave tours. The Saint was not bad but it of course was MIDI enabled and I was never a big fan of the MIDI though appreciate it appears to have re-ignited the whole bands fun with technology. Give me that clean sound of JG on Tiger with his Mutron, Delay and MXR distortion used accordingly where appropriate over the MIDI. I did like his adventures with the Whammy Digitech pedal too. He was stomping the hell out of that I first caught it at the 1991 New Years run and it was the last Garcia tone that I enjoyed.

Worst live tone 93 - 95 when using the Lightning Bolt guitar. I can forgive tone 65 - 66 just warming up.


It wasn't Bolt that had terrible tone, it was the fact that he started playing direct at that time. No more Twin, Mac, and JBL's.
All's well that sounds well.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:43 am

Absolutely no question, angels fell from heaven back in '93 when Jerry went direct with his GD rig. That tone instantly became so terrible, it literally made me depressed and far less interested in catching as many shows as I did previously. I'm honestly appalled at anyone who buys a GT Trio and goes for that sound. It was a musical tragedy of historical proportions. '93 was when the most uniquely beautiful guitar rig & tone was laid to rest. Makes me sad to even think about it. Fortunately, he kept most of his good tone for his real love at the time, JGB. He was so burnt and done with the Dead by then. I could see and hear and feel it at the shows in the final years, not just in the tone but in the lack passion and creativity and inspiration. Sure there were moments of light, but they were scarce. And sadly, the rest of the band was on fire. A train with no headlight.


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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:46 am

And I guess there was also that awkward transition when he first got the Mc2300. Some of that '73 and '74 stuff is pretty sterile sounding. Took him a little while to tame that big Mac setup and learn how to drive it like a guitar amp rig with smooth, sweet tone. Early on it was too clean, plinky, kinda lifeless, not his best tone.

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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby 8-6-71 for me » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:20 pm

8-7-71 cited as the worst?!? Burns my ears to listen... I spent a lot of time trying to capture that exact sound. LOL
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby caspersvapors » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:58 pm

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:And I guess there was also that awkward transition when he first got the Mc2300. Some of that '73 and '74 stuff is pretty sterile sounding. Took him a little while to tame that big Mac setup and learn how to drive it like a guitar amp rig with smooth, sweet tone. Early on it was too clean, plinky, kinda lifeless, not his best tone.

B


totally agree. Once he really got it dialed in 74 though - one of his best sounds.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby TeeJay » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:20 pm

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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby seniorpesca » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:32 am

not a big fan of the rosebud 93 sound
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby TRG » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:16 am

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:Absolutely no question, angels fell from heaven back in '93 when Jerry went direct with his GD rig. That tone instantly became so terrible, it literally made me depressed and far less interested in catching as many shows as I did previously. I'm honestly appalled at anyone who buys a GT Trio and goes for that sound. It was a musical tragedy of historical proportions. '93 was when the most uniquely beautiful guitar rig & tone was laid to rest. Makes me sad to even think about it. Fortunately, he kept most of his good tone for his real love at the time, JGB. He was so burnt and done with the Dead by then. I could see and hear and feel it at the shows in the final years, not just in the tone but in the lack passion and creativity and inspiration. Sure there were moments of light, but they were scarce. And sadly, the rest of the band was on fire. A train with no headlight.


Brad


Could not agree more! Just don't understand how and why he would've made such a decision unless he simply just didn't care anymore. I mean, even if he didn't care anymore, how could he accept such a downgrade in tonal quality!? In my opinion there's nothing worse that he could've done to kill that "epic inspiring tone".

I cringe when I hear anything with midi as well, but putting that holy grail of a rig to bed was the worst.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby lightningbolt » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:20 pm

TRG wrote:
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:Absolutely no question, angels fell from heaven back in '93 when Jerry went direct with his GD rig. That tone instantly became so terrible, it literally made me depressed and far less interested in catching as many shows as I did previously. I'm honestly appalled at anyone who buys a GT Trio and goes for that sound. It was a musical tragedy of historical proportions. '93 was when the most uniquely beautiful guitar rig & tone was laid to rest. Makes me sad to even think about it. Fortunately, he kept most of his good tone for his real love at the time, JGB. He was so burnt and done with the Dead by then. I could see and hear and feel it at the shows in the final years, not just in the tone but in the lack passion and creativity and inspiration. Sure there were moments of light, but they were scarce. And sadly, the rest of the band was on fire. A train with no headlight.


Brad


Could not agree more! Just don't understand how and why he would've made such a decision unless he simply just didn't care anymore. I mean, even if he didn't care anymore, how could he accept such a downgrade in tonal quality!? In my opinion there's nothing worse that he could've done to kill that "epic inspiring tone".

I cringe when I hear anything with midi as well, but putting that holy grail of a rig to bed was the worst.


Is it possible that what he heard in his In-Ears was not what we heard FOH?
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