Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby tommybo » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:29 pm

Brad - your so right - my last dead show was in 93 ( buffalo ny - rich stadium ) I brought a bunch of friends - I felt so sad for jerry - he looked like he didn't even want to be there - could barely hear him - he was so out of sync with the rest of the band - maybe 1 or 2 songs were good - the rest - not so good - I couldn't even imagine the weight he felt on his shoulders to keep the show rolling on (band mates and 50 employees to worry about ) and he really didn't want to keep on going - no wonder he self- medicated
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby pablomago » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:22 pm

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe his in-ear tone was spectacular. Somehow, I'm guessing it wasn't. I'm not a fan of direct guitar without a mic'ed speaker somewhere in the signal chain. I haven't tried the modern modeling gear, but to me it's always going to lack that sound of air being moved. YMMV and all...


[/quote]

Could not agree more! Just don't understand how and why he would've made such a decision unless he simply just didn't care anymore. I mean, even if he didn't care anymore, how could he accept such a downgrade in tonal quality!? In my opinion there's nothing worse that he could've done to kill that "epic inspiring tone".

I cringe when I hear anything with midi as well, but putting that holy grail of a rig to bed was the worst.[/quote]

Is it possible that what he heard in his In-Ears was not what we heard FOH?[/quote]
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:01 am

Jerry likely heard exactly what we heard. I gather that he just didn't care as much with the GD, was happy to experiment and enjoy the benefits of in-ears and just wasn't worried about the "tone". But he DID care when it came to JGB.

Also, I think there were probably some tweaks and adjustments in the '93-95 era. Some of those shows have a better tone than others, maybe some creative EQ at the board, not sure. I talked to Cutler in '94 at setbreak (he was mixing after Healy left). He agreed that Jerry's direct tone was horrible and we talked about the idea of them miking a JBL in a box off-stage and how that would surely help, but he said at that point they hadn't bothered with that yet. Maybe they never did.

The Trio, to me, just isn't in the same class as the real Fender or Fender-like preamps many of us use for this purpose. The Trio has some pretty obnoxious bright-boosting stages, adds too much unpleasant, overly-crispy, glassy-ness to the tone. Too many stages and switchings going on. And the nail in the coffin for me is the lower plate voltages, just doesn't swing the signal like a good, lively, clean, Fendery preamp should. It's built well as all of mesa stuff seems to be, but tonally and functionally, the Trio is a let down for me when going for quality and authentic Jerry tones.

So that era was a combination of a lesser sounding preamp and the huge factor of going direct and not driving JBL's with a Mac. But to be fair to the Trio, there were 93-95 JGB shows where Jerry appeared to be using his Trio rack into the Mac & JBL's, and it sounded good. Not as good as his Twin preamps, but adequate.

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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby shadowboxer » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:04 pm

All of this talk about the too bright sound of 93-95 makes me wonder about Jerry's ears at that stage of his career. Maybe he had lost a lot of of his high frequency hearing at that point due to all the stage volume over time? Maybe he compensated by adjusting the tone to meet his hearing deficits?
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby Dozin » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:38 am

MIDI solos made me cringe.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby waldo041 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:37 pm

Dozin wrote:MIDI solos made me cringe.


+1

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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby strumminsix » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:54 am

Dozin wrote:MIDI solos made me cringe.

no doubt.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby strumminsix » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:56 am

lightningbolt wrote:Is it possible that what he heard in his In-Ears was not what we heard FOH?

I think you're right. IEM + tinnitus + exhaustion + lack of passion probably have a lot more to do with it than the equipment.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:11 am

Not generally a fan of the MIDI solos, but I vaguely recall a China Doll ending solo at Alpine 89 that was gorgeous, like a flute or something...


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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby playingdead » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:34 am

Nothing worse than an endless Row Jimmy with flute noodling ... and when Weir and Garcia were both playing with it at the same time ... time for the bathroom break!

Of course, I'd run through six lanes of traffic just to be back in the audience now for one song, MIDI be damned.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby Dozin » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:41 pm

Me too Vic :cry:
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby chipperj » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:12 pm

Not sure..... I think every iteration of Garcia's tone over the years has been fantastic (But I don't think I've ever heard the 90s direct stuff).

But I did just come out of a Dead & Co. show, and I can tell you I have never heard worse "Jerry" tone as I did tonight. If I ever was considering buying a PRS, that feeling has left the building. I'm actually kind of confused. Is the complete lack of character or bloom or sustain intentional? It sounded like he was literally phoning it in.

As opposed to Trey, whom I saw this past weekend (At the risk of straying off topic...). The sound of his guitar (and how he played it) was light years better than Mayer.
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby seniorpesca » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:47 am

[quote="chipperj"]Not sure..... I think every iteration of Garcia's tone over the years has been fantastic (But I don't think I've ever heard the 90s direct stuff).

But I did just come out of a Dead & Co. show, and I can tell you I have never heard worse "Jerry" tone as I did tonight. If I ever was considering buying a PRS, that feeling has left the building. I'm actually kind of confused. Is the complete lack of character or bloom or sustain intentional? It sounded like he was literally phoning it in.

As opposed to Trey, whom I saw this past weekend (At the risk of straying off topic...). The sound of his guitar (and how he played it) was light years better than Mayer.[/quote

mayer sux imo
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby caspersvapors » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:11 am

chipperj wrote:Not sure..... I think every iteration of Garcia's tone over the years has been fantastic (But I don't think I've ever heard the 90s direct stuff).

But I did just come out of a Dead & Co. show, and I can tell you I have never heard worse "Jerry" tone as I did tonight. If I ever was considering buying a PRS, that feeling has left the building. I'm actually kind of confused. Is the complete lack of character or bloom or sustain intentional? It sounded like he was literally phoning it in.

As opposed to Trey, whom I saw this past weekend (At the risk of straying off topic...). The sound of his guitar (and how he played it) was light years better than Mayer.




Caught them at Shoreline and thought both Bob and John sounded bad- very shrill harsh tones. Not sure if its the sound guy but I noticed JM isnt using his PRS amp. I thought he sounded way better on the 2016 tour
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Re: Worst live Jerry tone you've heard

Postby Capt Rosebuddy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:03 am

The 66-67 stuff I can't get into, sounds like their best attempt at sounding like Revolver. The band was just finding it's feet at that point so is what it is.


As far as the midi goes
"Someone plays guitar that sounds like a clarinet"
Garcia definitely listened to a ton of Coltrane, Davis and I think Benny Goodman. His phrasing and soloist choices clearly denote that. When the technology matured enough to synth horns it was too much to say no to (also those guys loved gadgets). So that's my excuse for the midi stuff. Too much? sometimes yea you bet, but overall I thought it was kind of cool effect and very much of it's time.

I'd also offer a little pushback on the post '93 on stuff too. That material that they where writing (The Garcia songs) was so well suited to that acoustic(ish) tone. Days Between comes to mind. It sounds so eerie and etherial to my ears with the Trio and Cripe guitar. My guess is that yes, Garcia was burnt out, and also the change in helm at the front of the house sbd I'm sure had something to do with it. Who did sound for JGB? I know Cutler produced that late 90's live JGB cd, but dunno if he was on the board on that fall '93 tour. Pugging directly into a tracking desk in the studio was a pretty well established practice that I'm sure Garcia was aware of also, might have gotten better, or might have been ditched who can say? In retrospect I think it was an experiment that was sadly cut short.
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