Example of JG Grit

Example of JG Grit

Postby waldo041 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:02 pm

I know it is all in the hands in regards to Jerry's overall tone, but this clearly shows what his rigs potential had in just the basic setting. When he is singing he keeps the volume low, but once he starts this solo he throws the volume up and keeps creeping it up more and more and get's everything SCREAMING. Once he goes back to the verse you can see him turn it all down.

THIS is where it starts, if you cannot get that gritty searing sustain with his known amp settings, or even come close to it with NO effects, then you are not there yet. His hands were not creating the sustain and grit. It was his Twin Reverb preamp, Mac, JBL's and Tiger.



https://youtu.be/DzLsuU06tAY?t=1h39m55s

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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby hippieguy1954 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:06 am

Yeaaaa! Excellent example! :cool:
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby Searing75 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:25 am

The X factor here, after having all of the correct gear, is gain! Volume. Push the Mcintosh. Push the JBL. Get the tone. I use an MC50 with a disabled sentry, and a K120, and it's still very loud in mid sized clubs, but I'm getting that driven, saturated tone. :cool:
All's well that sounds well.
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby brbadg » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:06 pm

The trick here is to get that tone in a club,and not be so loud that the manager has to talk to you,
Not good.Thanks for the example tho.
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby tatittle » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:28 pm

I absolutely agree with Wald as usual. For example with Marshall's or cascading gain preamps physically digging in (Hendrix/SRV e.g.) has a huge impact on the tonal quality/grit. I haven't found that to be true with Jerry type rigs (w/o effects especially), in fact often it seems to be counterproductive to the point I consciously try to keep my touch lighter as my energy and emotion grows. It is counter-intuitive in many ways, perhaps especially for younger players who grew up with amps where digging in alone creates so much grit. Touch still plays a role, but I imagine the ratio to rig influence is much less than with more primitive/emotional type players on creamier amps.
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby MattMan » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:15 pm

Nice example Waldo. Thanks.

What's interesting here, also, besides the killer tone, is that you can really "feel" Jerry getting his chops back after the coma. His mind seems to be "ahead' of his fingers just a touch. He's got all the energy back and is getting his chops back in fine form. This always seems to me happen to me even when I take a short break from practicing. Jer must have had one hell of a time getting back to speed after the diabetic coma, H dependency, etc. But he certainly was "rejuvinated" after his illness. Great vibe. Having seen Jerry heavily from 83 on, but also once in 79, this period was my favorite (sure wish I saw him in the 70's). Speaking of this period, HJK 10-31-86 is just remarkable when you consider how sick he was: https://youtu.be/GR6Roj9r3B8
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby hippieguy1954 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:06 am

There s no doubt about it. You have to have the proper preamp/power amp and you have to be at extreme volume. That's why many of us are limited to particular venues. For some, it is not feasible at all because there are only small venues available etc.
With my last band, JamminDead (now defunked...long story), we would only play where we could play at extreme volume and that is what the audience wanted. Outside parties, some old movie theaters and a few large halls, VFW etc. We didn't do bars except for acoustic, for that reason.
It really limits you in this respect, but my feeling has always been "you only live once", so why compromise.
I'm obviously not in this for the money. Only for the love of the music (although we did get paid a lot sometimes) and I do grab my Deluxe reverb or Blues jr from time to time to jam with friends at their house, but in the live performance band situation, I do not compromise and I must say it's very rewarding. Just has to be at the right venue.
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby MattMan » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:23 am

hippieguy1954 wrote:There s no doubt about it. You have to have the proper preamp/power amp and you have to be at extreme volume. ...


Yes, the preamp + power amp + speaker are crucial for the JG grit, but I respectfully disagree that extreme volume is necessary to attain the JG grit IF those three are correctly optimized for JG grit. The originator of this thread has done extensive research on optimizing the Fender Twin and Mcintosh power amp to obtain the JG grit we're striving for at comfortable SPL's. :D
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby strumminsix » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:46 am

Great thread, Waldo! And so very right.

Guys talk volume and man there are ways to get close without ear blistering volume: small amp, guitar in monitors, etc, etc... I've said before and I'll say again one of the best JG guys I've seen in the clubs used a Tele into a DR cranked to the sweet spot.
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby hippieguy1954 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:14 pm

MattMan wrote:
hippieguy1954 wrote:There s no doubt about it. You have to have the proper preamp/power amp and you have to be at extreme volume. ...


Yes, the preamp + power amp + speaker are crucial for the JG grit, but I respectfully disagree that extreme volume is necessary to attain the JG grit IF those three are correctly optimized for JG grit. The originator of this thread has done extensive research on optimizing the Fender Twin and Mcintosh power amp to obtain the JG grit we're striving for at comfortable SPL's. :D


I am very well aware of Mike's extensive research and have thanked him many times for sharing so graciously. My whole Jerry rig is based on his tried and true recommendations. Thanks again, Mike!

That said, I have to have my 2100 volume at 11 or 12 o'clock and the Twin volume (with all Jerry/Maestro mods) right before 4 in order to have the extra volume available at the guitar volume control for that extra boost when needing that grit. Having the guitar volume at around 5 when singing.

That's extremely loud for some. Maybe we have different perceptions of extremely loud? Whatever it is, I love it :cool:
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby seniorpesca » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:00 pm

The Archer ikon klone pedal has changed my rig. I go SMS>Mc2100>e120s and I can't get away most places busting my stage volume loud enough to get that pure Garcia breakup but with the ikon I am able to achieve it.
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby TI4-1009 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:38 pm

I always wonder if Jerry would have used a Klon of some type if he'd have lived long enough. We'll never know.
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby waldo041 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:57 pm

Another good example throughout this show, albeit with a backup rig. One guitar cable, no effects at all. I always wondered if he was so loud, how can he stand right in front of those speakers?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeFwJIuYOyk

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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby hippieguy1954 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:59 am

waldo041 wrote:Another good example throughout this show, albeit with a backup rig. One guitar cable, no effects at all. I always wondered if he was so loud, how can he stand right in front of those speakers?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeFwJIuYOyk

~waldo


What? Eh? I think ya get used to it as your hearing slowly suffers.
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Re: Example of JG Grit

Postby tcsned » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:36 am

waldo041 wrote:I know it is all in the hands in regards to Jerry's overall tone, but this clearly shows what his rigs potential had in just the basic setting. When he is singing he keeps the volume low, but once he starts this solo he throws the volume up and keeps creeping it up more and more and get's everything SCREAMING. Once he goes back to the verse you can see him turn it all down.

THIS is where it starts, if you cannot get that gritty searing sustain with his known amp settings, or even come close to it with NO effects, then you are not there yet. His hands were not creating the sustain and grit. It was his Twin Reverb preamp, Mac, JBL's and Tiger.



https://youtu.be/DzLsuU06tAY?t=1h39m55s

~waldo

I love that tone, that was from my one and only New Years run. Crazy 20 year old spending a week living in a car :D

He was also loud as hell. I can get close to that with the Wolf-->SMS-->MC2100-->Beyma Liberty rig but it's at pretty unworkable volume for bar gigs . . . according to my bandmates :roll: The Earth Drive helps get there but not quite that same thing he was getting in the mid-80s. That was the period I went to most of the shows I saw (82-87) so it is the tone that I love most.

Thanks for posting that video, I had never seen any video from those shows, It was a nice trip down memory lane :D
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