Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby tatittle » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:09 pm

I apologize to the forum police, as I know this has been exhaustively addressed, I just cant find it.

I would like to know how to install my Dimarzio's to obtain hum-cancelling in the 2 and 4 Strat positions. I recall advice on flipping them opposite poles from the designed installation, but it seems to me that they would continue to be non-hum canceling in that total reverse position. Should I just flip 1 of the pickups? Right now I don't get hum cancel in either 2 or 4; there is an SDS-1 in the neck currently. So flipping the middle may acquire hum cancelling in both?

All the pickups are currently installed unflipped. I have have a Steve's Special Dimarzio in the bridge, but I imagine it is wound the same way.
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby hippieguy1954 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:37 am

Only the middle pickup has to be flipped and wired accordingly for hum cancel. Scroll all the way down to the second wiring diagram here:

http://www.wald-electronics.com/rosebud.html

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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby TI4-1009 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:15 am

Is the middle flipped for hum-cancel purposes or for optimum location of split coil?
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby waldo041 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:28 am

TI4-1009 wrote:Is the middle flipped for hum-cancel purposes or for optimum location of split coil?


location.

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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby tatittle » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:19 am

Great thanks guys. Indeed I was intending to flip for location too, but I would guess hum cancel would be a priority for me. Not sure how much different the coil placement is yet, but I do know I really miss hum cancel in 2/4 when its not there....I use 2/4 a lot. I have some of the custom mgbll pguards Ill probably switch to when I flip the pup. Incidentally, standard Strat pickguards may yield the south coil clod=ser to the position of Garcia's guitar than the North,

LOL. That's the 1st Ive seen the Brawer wiring. My 70's focus kept me from investigating your Rosebud page I guess...and that's where all the info I ask about is located. Brawer's modified wiring is basically what I ended up with on my own after seeing Waldo's diagram...

except I am confused as to why he has the coil switch wires changed to red/green rather than white and black. Is this nec'y? Wouldn't I just be starting at the South coil joining GREEN to the switch (vs. red); and there is no change of the white/black position/function?
Last edited by tatittle on Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby tatittle » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:37 pm

except I am confused as to why Brawer has the coil switch wires changed to red/green rather than white and black. Is this nec'y? Wouldn't I just be starting at the South coil joining GREEN to the switch (vs. red); and there is no change of the white/black position/function? It will be a real PITA to switch the coil cut switch wires to R/G since the hole is tiny on my switch.

and of course I am another gratefully enjoying the documentation by Waldo. I have said it before, but Ill say it again, MUCH OBLIGED :-)
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby tatittle » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:17 pm

I guess it does make sense for phasing, although I haven't quite envisioned it in my head yet. Im tempted to try merely switching the r/g as is currently wired (b/w to coil cut per Waldo), but I wont be able to detect phasing issues w/o stringing it back up.
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby hippieguy1954 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:03 pm

I thought the second Rosebud diagram serves two purposes. Keeps the coil closest to the neck active when split while making it hum cancel in position 2 and 4.
I didn't think hum cancel was used in Wolf or Tiger wiring. :shock:
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby tatittle » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:06 pm

Okay I finally have a vision of why the red/green go to cut switch in the hum cancel instead of leaving white/black there. I had to draw myself a picture before I realized it was a mirror image. I am theorizing that if I did not switch to r/b at coil cut I would lose hum cancel in humbucking position (and maybe get out of phase or something too).
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby waldo041 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:38 pm

A humbucker has two single coils that are reverse wound from each other and have the opposite magnetic polarity. So yes, a mirror image. For the Brawer wiring the actual pickup is only flipped to change the location so that south coil is neck side when cut.

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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby tatittle » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:43 pm

Well I just finished rewiring my middle p'up and the good news is it works and hum cancels. I haven't strung it up yet to make sure phase is correct. I was surprised to find I once again have the South (bridge side) coil active when split. :oops: My major concern was the hum cancel, and to my eyes the bridge side pup may be closer to Garcia than the neck side in my standard Strat pickguard so Im not too frazzled about that. I have the opposite of Brawers layout I think, my bridge and neck are the standard direction, and my middle is now flipped; so I guess it makes sense that its still South now. Im gonna feel really dumb if I need to switch the b/w back to the coil cut and red/green to ground/in for proper phasing though---overthinking things can get me in trouble sometimes. Im too tired now to think anymore but I am hoping I can just flip it back around and retain hum cancel. Thanks for the help.

Had to string it up before I could fall asleep and it seems to be all good. No North/neck SC on the middle pickup...but I can live without that for awhile.
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby TI4-1009 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:28 am

Maybe this is just a terminology thing- there are a few different things going on with humbuckers. A humbucker has two coils wound opposite each other to "cancel the hum". When you split a coil you disconnect one of the coils and essentially turn the humbucker into a single coil. Supposedly when you cut one coil you lose at least some of the hum-cancelling. When I flip my coil-cut switch I don't hear any extra hum- just a weaker (but brighter) signal.

For our Jerry purposes the middle pickup is flipped only in order to locate the active split coil in the exact right spot. If you had the room (like if you had no neck pickup) you could theoretically move the middle pickup a little ways toward the neck and use the south coil- it would still be in the sweet spot.

Flipping the pickup has nothing to do with hum cancelling- the humbuckers do that in either orientation. I'm not sure it has anything to do with phasing or any other effects either- they come from the wiring, not the orientation.

In addition to that you have series and parallel. Wired in series, the current flows through one coil and then the other- they're connected end-to-end. Parallel the current flows through both coils side-by-side at the same time. I think there's an easy way to wire a 4-lead humbucker with a DPDT switch to get series/coil cut/parallel.

You can wire two humbuckers out of phase with each other- where they partially cancel each other out- from each other for a still different sound. If you wire the two coils of the SAME humbucker out of phase with each other it sounds pretty crappy since they're almost completely canceling each other out.

For a 2 and 4 position "quack" I think you need single coils wired in the normal parallel with each other, so if you has an SDS in the neck and coil cut Super 2s in the middle and bridge you essentially have a strat and can get that quacky sound with two single-coil pickups slightly cancelling each other out.
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby tatittle » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:34 am

I may not have been specific enough in explaining what I meant by hum cancelling. I am referring to ONLY the 2 and 4 "quack" positions, none other. A typical strat today is equipped with a RWRP center pickup so that the 2/4 positions (nck + middle and bridge + middle) yield hum canceling, while the true SC 1,3,5 positions still have the 60Hz hum typical of single coils (the hum that gave "humbuckers" their name). This hum-canceling parallel SC feature wasn't available until the 70's or 80's I don't think...when RWRP were developed.

For what its worth Im really happy with the improvement so far...I obtained the humcancel in 2/4. I just spaced the fact that Brawer effectively had flipped the neck/bridge and left the middle alone for rewire. Since everyone here typically "flips" all their pickups from what I believe is the Dimarzio wiring from the start, this is ripe for confusion. When I say flip I mean from Dimarzio's position, not Garcia's. Maybe I am wrong in that assumption...it is confusing anyway.

I can get a bit wordy so I apologize for any time wasting. I understand what is going on pretty much---I just get a bit dazed when thinking through the wiring. Since I do not have an exact replica of the schematics I have to make adjustments in it. A lot easier to just start with the exact wiring Waldo or Brawer laid out.. :lol:
Last edited by tatittle on Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby tatittle » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:41 am

waldo041 wrote:A humbucker has two single coils that are reverse wound from each other and have the opposite magnetic polarity. So yes, a mirror image. For the Brawer wiring the actual pickup is only flipped to change the location so that south coil is neck side when cut.

~waldo


It states right in the diagram that one of his objectives was to acquire hum-cancelling...
It seems like you believe the coil location is a bigger priority, which I don't doubt at all, just trying to get both. Trying to play some places w/o humcancel is impossible (exposed wiring etc.).
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Re: Hum cancel Dimarzio Super 2's/SDS-1

Postby waldo041 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:54 am

tatittle wrote:
waldo041 wrote:A humbucker has two single coils that are reverse wound from each other and have the opposite magnetic polarity. So yes, a mirror image. For the Brawer wiring the actual pickup is only flipped to change the location so that south coil is neck side when cut.

~waldo


It states right in the diagram that one of his objectives was to acquire hum-cancelling...
It seems like you believe the coil location is a bigger priority, which I don't doubt at all, just trying to get both. Trying to play some places w/o humcancel is impossible (exposed wiring etc.).


What diagram? the one I made from the information I got from Gary Brawer? The objective Brawer did was to hum-cancel, yes, but Jerry used neck side coils when in coil cut. That is how Rosebud is wired now, so I ask you what do you think was Jerry's priority?

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