zambiland wrote:waldo041 wrote:The string tension is derived from the bridge and stoptail including the custom string tree/bar across the low E,A,D,G strings. Fender already had a tree on the B and high E. But the other was used to simulate the headstock angle of a Gibson. So the hardtail bridge and modified headstock string tree were to adjust for string tension.
Check out my Rosebud info for the spacings your after.
This has been discussed all over the web and off the web, and it's been determined pretty conclusively that string tension is determined by scale length and while other factors can affect the feel of the instrument, it doesn't change the actual tension for a given gauge of string.
tatittle wrote:I was just going to address the Fender to Gibson string tension posts so thanks for the clarification. Gibsons have lower tension because the length the string spans is shorter; this is why it is easier to bend strings on Gibsons. An old guitar guy told me increasing the break angle (string thru v. topload, trees etc.) effectively lengthens the string. Perhaps the topload works towards the Gibson tension figure, but the bar/trees would go in the opposite direction away from that figure? In any case, the differences are far too pronounced btw scale lengths for any of these things to make a big difference to my hands.
It looks like there may be slots where the strings hit the edge of the bridge on the way to the saddles (middle strings anyway).
mgbills wrote:Waldo…please send me that photo, if you're willing. Holy F$%K! That is cool.
mgbills wrote:I'll try to cover the last two post from tcsnet & T14...
Break-angle Continued. So if we hold true that the scale length is a fixed distance. We also understand that the string wire must be tensioned to a degree such that the open string produces sound in proportion to A=440. I think we can also agree that when the instrument is fretted there will be some minute amount of movement through the nut & saddle. Since the primary harmonic interval on a non-fretted plucked string is dependent on the scale length, we can presume that the guys over at TGP are correct (within my ability to reason it)...That the travel of the string in front of the nut, and in back of the bridge primarily affects the perception of the fingers to elasticity or "sponginess" in the playable action. This, of course, can be further affected by neck relief & setup.
The string, in an ideal universe, would be stretched perfectly between two points. In that same ideal universe there would be no need of mechanical attachment or tensioning. When plucked the string could oscillate infinately at our desired frequency ...because we're also in a vacuum...and then sound would have no medium to travel through...but I've digressed.
This is relevant to the greater question of how strings break over a harmonica bridge. I bet Waldo knows if the strings on the Irwin instruments touched bridge. I may even have a picture at home of Rosebud. I attempted to setup the Tiger action on this guitar
built by AO. As I approached 7/64" posted action, the impact on the back of the bridge was dramatic. I did it in a rush. I was trying to do some work for Pete B. on his Strat and wanted to hand him an OBEL guitar to use in it's place. Bad move. Much learned. Intonation horribly off. Oh well ...live & learn. I've been studying intonation & the physics of intonation ever since.
My current take is that I'd definately prefer to have the strings terminate in the stop tail and the tuners, only touching the nut & saddle in between. The mechanical force of strings laying on the back of a harmonica bridge is considerable. There isn't any structural integrity in the two posts that the bridge floats upon...intentionally...designed to transmit energy into the guitar top. A trusted luthier buddy once told me that the original tune-o-matic design on old LP's was really the best. Posts into wood, withough the machined posts. An induced downward force from strings can actually tilt the bridge.
Is that tilt beneficial or detrimental? If you're string slot is correct then drag may be reduced by the tilt. What if the saddles were never filed? Oftentimes folks leave those little "V" slots as new, expecially on a plated bridge. If you're not filed, now you'll see a new vector. The break down to the stop-tail helps keep the strings in the slots. The saddles themselves are also tapered toward the stop-tail. All in all it's probably moot, as the force vector is still downward toward the guitar top.
I guess the biggest issue then is dampening. Are the strings dampened or hamonics reduced by those things which limit the string after the nut or saddle?
The whole organism is like an aroused lover when it's all vibrating together. Anything which might impede that experience I would deem undesirable.
I'll have to check my logic on this post later in the day. Fires are burning at work, and I have to go be a production manager now.
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