Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby Jerry1996x » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:49 am

Pull the outer power tubes from the twin for half volume, buy a JBL E120, and get the SG modded with a Super 2, OR Dual Sound in the middle. Jerry used Dual Sounds in Tiger untill 82. That should get you pretty much there! :smile:
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby James-T » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:18 pm

I had pretty good success with that early 78 tone by scoring an 81 carvin dc160 and going with a dual sound in the neck, and using a 10db boost through a twin. If you have a middle pick up you can blend with the neck and get really great tones as well. I have a PRS CU 22 with a dragon 2 at the neck and a dual sound in the middle position. With the neck on single coil and the middle on humbucker mode it's even more tiger like.

The carvin mimics the wolf as its hard rock maple and a hard tail. That early 78 jerry tone has some gain to it and I suspect that's the stratoblaster working with the dual sound. If you listen to say dicks picks 18 - Those Wisconsin shows and listen to the eyes you can here jerry up at the 18th fret high e and it sounds like a lower note because the dual sound handles those high frequencies different than the supper 2's. I think that is the essence of the 78 tone.

I came across an 82 carvin on our local Craigslist for 450 just last week. I think chasing the 78 tone with a mahogany plank and rosewood fretboard will be a challenge. I would be warry of starting with the wrong guitar. Spend your money wisely so find a better axe than the sg. Just sell your sg and look for a carvin or prs se if you are on a budget and build around that. Next look for a used blues deluxe, fender deluxe reverb or a cheap twin,which these days they are giving away. Then score a jbl speaker. If you go the deluxe root you only need to fork out for one speaker.

Interestingly the shorter neck scales of my carvin and prs do seem to effect the tone that much when I compare them against my strats and I just scored an 82 strat that sounds as good as my prs and just as Jerry like at a fraction of the price. Again, the dual sound for me is the way to go. I've got it in both my prs and carvin and I'm with you on the chase for the 78 tone. It's my fav.

The speakers - jbl and the pickups are the first places to start and a dual sound in the neck gets you almost there.
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby PaulJay » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:36 am

Stu Allen started with an SG and then did the mods. Check out some You Tube Vids. I think he played thru a twin back then.
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby jenkins » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:26 pm

wolftigerrosebud wrote:
jenkins wrote:Having that middle pup is CRUCIAL for getting the Garcia tone, IMO it's just not happening with any 2 humbucker guitar.


Not to bust balls, but Jerry did sound like himself on a lot of guitars with just two pups. My SG has PAF-style pups in it, and with the Earth Drive, E120, and Brad's preamp, it really sounds quite convincing. Through an actual blackface Fender, it sounds exactly the same.

There are a lot of ways to get there, everything everyone's saying on the whole page is probably a valid, effective place to start.



Oh I totally agree that pretty much everyting said on this thread is legit and could all be a good place to start.
I was just trying to point out the value of the guitar an how IMO that really should be thee first place to start. It was definetely NOT the first place I started and once i finally got it modded I was shocked at the difference it made.

Here is a quote from Sarno over on the Stu Allen thread that I think explains it better than I:
" He has been using the Mc250 and JBL and SMS Classic rig recently and while it sounds good and close, without the right pickups, those Gibson humbuckers just won't tell the whole story. Also, the OBEL will be brand new to him. "


I still think the guitar mods is the best place to start an will be the most bang for your buck.
A proper jerry guitar will sound very convincing even through a Peavey, I think more convincing than a sstock SG wwith HB's through a twin with JBL's. but that's JMO.
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:31 am

reverb > speaker> preamp> other stuff
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby Poor Peter » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:19 pm

I have no opinion one way or another, but I thought I would share my experience. I had been playing a SG '62 r.i. through a fender super reverb. My high end was short and punchy, with no real tonal quality to it. It worked for me for a while, but in the long run I was too distracted not hearing what I wanted to hear in the upper register especially on the treble strings. I recently picked up one of Troy Posts' creations with a super 2 in the middle position and it has made a world of difference. It's not total Jerry going thru the SR but at least now I'm in the ballpark. It even sounds convincing thru my little 15 watt Marshall practice amp. I hope to pick up a deluxe or maybe even a twin in the near future, but just having the super 2 split in the middle position has gotten me closer than I would have expected.
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby gpilcher2001 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:04 pm

Poor Peter wrote:I have no opinion one way or another, but I thought I would share my experience. I had been playing a SG '62 r.i. through a fender super reverb. My high end was short and punchy, with no real tonal quality to it. It worked for me for a while, but in the long run I was too distracted not hearing what I wanted to hear in the upper register especially on the treble strings. I recently picked up one of Troy Posts' creations with a super 2 in the middle position and it has made a world of difference. It's not total Jerry going thru the SR but at least now I'm in the ballpark. It even sounds convincing thru my little 15 watt Marshall practice amp. I hope to pick up a deluxe or maybe even a twin in the near future, but just having the super 2 split in the middle position has gotten me closer than I would have expected.


The only difference between the twin and a super is the mid nob on the normal channel, 50 watts verses 85, and speaker configuration. I play through a weber super reverb kit in a head cabinet with jerry mods. The 50 watts is more than enough power for small and large gigs. My guitar is a shecter with gibson scale and jerry mods. I used to have a jerry caster. I don't notice the scale length that much. The schecter is definetly warmer than the strat but both are great sounding.

Like the previous posts pulling the two tubes on the twin will drop some db's and modding the guitar will get your sound in the ball park. Greg...
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby banjoted » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:24 am

Thank you all for your comments. It kind of took me in every direction this past week mentally.

At the end, I am a proud owner of a brand new fender strat. I brought it home last night and dusted off the Fender Twin (un-played for 10-15+ yrs). The combo sounded awesome compared to my peavey. Of course, it was REALLY loud even at 1-1.5.... but my wife was fine with it. It was crackling a bit and hissing while plugged in and no playing was happening. When I turned the treble from 7-10, the sound dropped out then came back. I think the speakers have been compromised. Or could it be something else ?

On my SG, I'm holding off on any mods right now. Perhaps a few months from now......

Also, I placed an order for an SMS with Brad. I have an existing crown amp that I'm going to use to power it. Any ideas on where to get a speaker cabinet built ?
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby tcsned » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:43 am

Hogan on this board makes some pretty sweet cabs, there's always Hard Truckers awesome stuff but on the more expensive side. Sounds like your Twin could use a good clean up. Sitting for that long could have gotten dust in the pots and tube sockets and such. I've got the SMS CTP and can't say enough good things about it. You might think about getting an Earth Drive too.
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby ccw3432 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:55 am

I have a SSP (sound scaper productions) and its really nice. Hogan's look nice as well.

I have a modded SG with a splittable super 2 in the middle. It gets some great sounds but not dead on for later Jerry stuff. It does get you in there though and I'm real happy with it for now. It really hits the earlier stuff and of course can nail the riff to ACDCs Big Balls. If you consider putting a center pickup in down the line let me know and I can send you an audio sample of it before you get the router out.
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby strumminsix » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:50 am

banjoted wrote:Thank you all for your comments. It kind of took me in every direction this past week mentally.

At the end, I am a proud owner of a brand new fender strat. I brought it home last night and dusted off the Fender Twin (un-played for 10-15+ yrs). The combo sounded awesome compared to my peavey. Of course, it was REALLY loud even at 1-1.5.... but my wife was fine with it. It was crackling a bit and hissing while plugged in and no playing was happening. When I turned the treble from 7-10, the sound dropped out then came back. I think the speakers have been compromised. Or could it be something else ?

Glad we all helped ya! Get that Twin to an amp tech to have checked out. You'll likely hear that you need to have your caps replaced and that's causing some of the hissing and volume dropping and some inherent noise as they try to keep up.
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Re: Quest > where to start > guitar or amp/speaker

Postby TI4-1009 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:41 am

The SG is fine for the late 60's stuff (think Live Dead), the strat at least gets you into the 70's! :lol: (think Europe 72). By the 79-82 period it was rock-heavy coco-maple Tiger with the split middle Super Distortion most of the time. The amps/speakers didn't change as much as the guitars did as the tone evolved, but you REALLY want a JBL to get where you want to be.
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