Mu-tron III vs. Haz Mu-tron III

Re: Mu-tron III vs. Haz Mu-tron III

Postby waldo041 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:22 am

Jon S. wrote:
redeyedjim wrote:hippieguy1954, I did the 68k resistor mod to my Proton and yes, it made the Proton much more Mutron-like in terms of decay, which was the one thing that bugged me about the Proton. The Proton's tone is still a little sterile when compared to the Mutron, but in terms of response and playability, it's a big improvement over the Tron effects in my Line6 M13. I'd rank these as Mutron III >>> Proton >>>>>>>>>>>Tron in M13. Take this for whatever it's worth.

Did you precede your Tron Up model w/the Boost Comp? It's the only, & indispensable, way to get a quality Tron sound out of the M13 - if I have time, I'll add pics of my M13 settings to this thread tonight.


how about some sound samples as well?

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: Mu-tron III vs. Haz Mu-tron III

Postby Jon S. » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:08 am

waldo041 wrote:
Jon S. wrote:
redeyedjim wrote:hippieguy1954, I did the 68k resistor mod to my Proton and yes, it made the Proton much more Mutron-like in terms of decay, which was the one thing that bugged me about the Proton. The Proton's tone is still a little sterile when compared to the Mutron, but in terms of response and playability, it's a big improvement over the Tron effects in my Line6 M13. I'd rank these as Mutron III >>> Proton >>>>>>>>>>>Tron in M13. Take this for whatever it's worth.

Did you precede your Tron Up model w/the Boost Comp? It's the only, & indispensable, way to get a quality Tron sound out of the M13 - if I have time, I'll add pics of my M13 settings to this thread tonight.


how about some sound samples as well?

peace,
waldo

I've never posted a sound sample in my life other than link to other folks' You Tube videos of my performances. If someone in the metro DC area wants to stop by and record me, by all means. And I do own a Mac & iPhone if someone wants to explain a simple way to do this.
Last edited by Jon S. on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mu-tron III vs. Haz Mu-tron III

Postby Jon S. » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:15 am

P.S. I had thought, by posting my settings, it would enable anyone who owns an M13 to test drive them at home, and anyone w/o one to do so anywhere there is an M13, e.g. at your local GC. And I should also probably clarify my first post - what I meant when I wrote, "a quality Tron sound." I personally am not cocerned over sounding exactly like Jerry - though I am heavily influenced by him. I think my M13 Tron sound fits Jon Silberman well. If sharing my settings may be helpful to anyone else, I'm pleased to share them. If your goal is to sound "exactly" like Jerry, though, an M13 probably wouldn't work for you anyway no matter how versatile and convenient they can be.
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Re: Mu-tron III vs. Haz Mu-tron III

Postby redeyedjim » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:39 pm

Jon S. wrote:
redeyedjim wrote:hippieguy1954, I did the 68k resistor mod to my Proton and yes, it made the Proton much more Mutron-like in terms of decay, which was the one thing that bugged me about the Proton. The Proton's tone is still a little sterile when compared to the Mutron, but in terms of response and playability, it's a big improvement over the Tron effects in my Line6 M13. I'd rank these as Mutron III >>> Proton >>>>>>>>>>>Tron in M13. Take this for whatever it's worth.

Did you precede your Tron Up model w/the Boost Comp? It's the only, & indispensable, way to get a quality Tron sound out of the M13 - if I have time, I'll add pics of my M13 settings to this thread tonight.


I did -- I saw your (?) earlier post that spelled out the preferred Boost/Comp and Tron settings, and I copied them like I was still in grade school. And the boost/comp before the Tron did help, but I still wasn't completely thrilled with the resulting effect. Maybe I just don't have the right touch to make the M13's tron effect sound convincing, or my setup isn't as forgiving or flexible as yours. I don't know. I can say, having played the m13's Tron, the Proton, and an actual Mutron III that's been recalibrated, the Mutron imparts a tonal quality all its own, beyond the effect itself. It adds a warmth and resonance to the signal that makes it pretty damn special. Especially in the milder settings.

I'll happily post some samples of each effect once I get my Proton back, with the caveat that I'm not as good a guitarist as many of you guys are.
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Re: Mu-tron III vs. Haz Mu-tron III

Postby Jon S. » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:27 am

Couple of follow-up thoughts. First is that the M13's models, while good, are not all great and you are probably, first and foremost, reacting to the fact that it's Tron model is simply not as good sounding as the real deal. Second is that, although I shared my settings with you, if your attack or the strength of your pickups or other factors differ from mine (as they certainly would), my settings might not be the best ones for you - you'd need to experiment for yourself. Last is that for many of the LIne 6 models, changing the controls slightly can impact the tones greatly. The M13 is not a "sounds great at any settings" device at all - tweaking is the name of the game (though it's very easy to do as the design is such so each effect model's controls are WYSIWYG).

And BTW, I tweaked my own Tron settings slightly, recently, from how they were set the last time I posted them here in my own effort to improve the tones. Time permitting, I'll re-post the updated settings, along with my full Grateful Dead scene (a scene is a combination of 12 effects on a single board, for those who don't have an M13; the M13 allows for 12 scenes (more, actually, but 12 is enough for most of us). And I haven't even mentioned the global settings the M13 offers like it's highly effective and transparent noise gate, as one example (I sold my Decimator gate shortly after copping my M13 - just didn't need it any more).

Which brings my last point. A device like the M13 is not for everyone. I think it works best for someone like me who's in a Dead cover band and plays a lot of Dead BUT also jams and plays with many other musicians doing a lot of other music. If I was completed Deadicated to the Dead, I'd probably prefer a trad pedalboard, too, loaded with all of the best pedals specifically to copy Jerry's tones. If this is you, by all means, focus on that one guitarist's tones. Myself, I'm playing Dead one day, U2, Weezer, and Goo Goo Dolls the next. I'm not a millionaire. I can't afford 12 pedalboards for 12 different types of music. With the M13, though, in just one relatively small footprint unit, I can carry around with me well over a hundred different effects set up in 12 boards that I can access one to the next with the tap of a toe.

This is the true attraction of the Line 6 M13 to me.

Somewhere, on a forum just like this one but dedicated to The Edge rather than Jerry, a conversation very similar to this one is ongoing where one person posts how he loves his M13 for U2 and another person responds, "Are you nuts? You can't get anywhere near exactly like The Edge with that unit!" And the person responding is probably sounding just like me here, ending with, "If you're extremely picky about sounding exactly like _______ or recording and need to nail his tones, I agree. Otherwise, here's what I like about my unit."
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Mu-tron III vs. Haz Mu-tron III

Postby redeyedjim » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:08 am

Jon, your points are all valid and well made. If it sounded like I was attacking the M13, I didn't mean to. I like my M13 a lot, and I find it's great for some things, really great for a few things, and still OK for all the rest that it can do. I love the flexibility its many effects gives me, and I love that I can run them in any order, AND that it has its own external stereo FX loop, and that I can insert that into any position in the effects chain. And that doesn't even scratch the surface of what a motivated person could do with it, or touch on it's pretty-damn-useful 28 second looper. I bought mine a few years ago and liked it so much I picked up a M9 for my smaller grab-and-go setup. But then I'm a bit of a gear slut.

My main point, I suppose, is just that I've evolved my thinking on a couple of effects, especially the Mutron. I found that after upgrading my preamp, amp and speaker to what was recommended on this forum (SMS CTP, MC50, E120, respectively) and then upgrading my guitar to the UGB/OBEL and giving it a Tiger-esque pup selection, I can really hear the warmth and tone inherent in various analog effects. Which is awesome and the whole point of these upgrades, lol; money well spent, but definitely money spent. The only "downside" is that now that I can hear these details I find I really miss them when they aren't present. :D

The music is still only going to sound as good as you can make it sound as a musician, and I'm still just a mediocre guitarist - effects don't supplant talent and skill, and I'm sure someone with actual talent could do much more with much less. But the JG setup is all about bringing out warm tone and clarity, and the original Mutron really shines in this environment. I think this sort of environment doesn't really favor the M13's Tron effect, and something like the Proton falls in between: better than the Tron, but still lacking the magical secret sauce of the Mutron.

My 2 cents.
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Re: Mu-tron III vs. Haz Mu-tron III

Postby Jon S. » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:46 am

You're cents - and sense - are fine by me. :)
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