External Buffer?

Re: External Buffer?

Postby hawk900 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:31 pm

Sure your right I made a CB-1,Jangletone1,an Alembic Startobalster screw pot set at solid 6db's and a General guitar Gadgets one with adjustable gain. Waldos's is worth putting in your guitar is thee best sounding out of all mentioned. Actually I'm in the midst of ordering a second TPC-1 and pedalizing it. Every pedal own except my qtron I installed direct out jacks because evn though you play through pedals and even when they are not on the signal goes the pedals buffer. A complete list in a diff thread that we could make a project off would be a list of all pedals worth talking about the use their own buffers. The second TPC-1 would be a pedal at the of my first direct out port to still keep the signal clean and full of bandwidth as it makes it's way around the loop. The onboard will always be on too going through thee fx which has a bypass switch onboard as well.This just adds more possibilities 4 recording and other routing options.
Any buffer with a gain needs to be waist level or above to meet Chapter 27 sub section 8 of the jerry almanac. LOL just kidding but hey why bend over unless you drop the soap.
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby redeyedjim » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:43 am

Bumping because my earlier question got a little buried.

Waldo did answer my question about volume pot values for buffered volume pedals (25k, which makes sense). Which leads me to a follow up question: Does a volume pedal typically user an audio tapered potentiometer? What is the effect like if you use a linear tapered pot? What if you aren't using it for volume swells but as more of a set-it-and-forget-it means of attenuation? In my case, I have some OD pedals I want to clean up, and I'm going to put them in their own loop with a dedicated volume pot in the looper.

Sorry if these are newbie questions but we need something to talk about, right?
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby waldo041 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:59 pm

i could just answer the question, but thought you might find this article enlightning.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/p ... tscret.htm

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Re: External Buffer?

Postby redeyedjim » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:31 pm

waldo041 wrote:i could just answer the question, but thought you might find this article enlightning.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/p ... tscret.htm

peace,
waldo



Thanks, waldo. I did read that yesterday, as I was researching this question. It was interesting, and I do understand the difference between audio later pots and linear taper pots. However, enlightenment continues to elude me. ::sigh:: hopefully it will come to me in a future life, as I can't seem to attain it in this one. :?

In the mean time...what I'd really appreciate are some straight answers to a few straight questions: Does a volume pedal typically user an audio tapered potentiometer? I guess after reading the page linked above, I'll assume it does. How is the effect perceived by the listener if you use a linear tapered pot for this application? If you aren't using a volume pedal (or pot) for volume swells but as more of a set-it-and-forget-it means of attenuation, does the taper of the pot matter?
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby waldo041 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:56 pm

redeyedjim wrote:In the mean time...what I'd really appreciate are some straight answers to a few straight questions: Does a volume pedal typically user an audio tapered potentiometer? I guess after reading the page linked above, I'll assume it does.

and your assumption, or better word is knowledge is correct.

redeyedjim wrote:How is the effect perceived by the listener if you use a linear tapered pot for this application?


you would hear full on and full off with essentially no audible effect after the first 10 degrees of the potentiometer

redeyedjim wrote:If you aren't using a volume pedal (or pot) for volume swells but as more of a set-it-and-forget-it means of attenuation, does the taper of the pot matter?


if this is really all you need it for (set and forget) why use a pot at all? just find the fixed value you want and use a resistor. to answer your question, yes the taper matters. if you are going to use it in the fashion you want, you will need to use an audio/logarithmic pot so you can "find" the volume/position you want. with a linear pot you will have a very short & fast, first 10 degrees of the pot to find the spot you need. and while you may intend to set an forget, you will be adjusting the pedal at each place you play at, why else use a volume pedal as i stated above. however occasional the movement may be of the pedal, the Audio/Log pot gives you the audible difference you need to set and forget.

hope that makes sense.
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby redeyedjim » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:09 pm

That makes excellent sense -- thank you for explaining that to me, waldo. Sorry for being dense.

redeyedjim wrote:
How is the effect perceived by the listener if you use a linear tapered pot for this application?


waldo wrote:
you would hear full on and full off with essentially no audible effect after the first 10 degrees of the potentiometer.


THANK YOU. This was the part I was having a hard time extrapolating from the graph.

waldo wrote:
if this is really all you need it for (set and forget) why use a pot at all?


Because I probably will adjust it, although I don't see myself actively playing with it in mid song like one might with a standard volume pedal, I do see myself tweaking it to alter my tone. Give me a knob, and I'll probably fiddle with it. Give me a fixed value, and I'll probably replace it with a knob. :lol:

Anyway, thanks for your clear answers and patience. :hail:
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby hawk900 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:33 pm

Adjusting it with a pot defeats thee entire purpose. Tho whole purpose is to maintain a solid no loss in quality and no volume change to and through you FX because alot of FX are really sensitive to db changes NO.1 the envelope filter which won't even quack if you turn that thing 1/16th of the way up or down. Jer's was set at 6db on at all times. He could play with his guitar volume knob all night without a single change in FX. If you getting into a volume like with Horsnby or with bandmates and they do happen.
Your first 1st reserve is your guitar's volume knob if you jam around 8ish then you got a couple knotches bckup. 2nd you have to be careful with and can be a booster and or volume pedal going into the preamp or mcintosh if you did the jer mods(otherwise useless) and 3rd throw btween you jbl's and the Mic. You should never have to go through this firepower set of options anyway but I've see it in action. Just becare of max capacities of the devices.
You do not need a gain knob your jacking up the db's too
YOU DO NOT NEED A GAIN KNOB AT ALL !!!!!!
lEARN THE EQUATION 2 CONVERT THE OUT PUT OF A RESITOR COMBO OR FLATHEAD SCREWDRIVER SETTABLE POT AND AIM FOR 6 TO 8 DB'S. jUST GOOGLE IT.
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby redeyedjim » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:05 am

Whoa, dude. Settle down. :D

First, I play a couple of different styles of music. The GD and Jer are my first love and I don't see that ever changing, but I also like some noisier, grittier stuff from time to time. To get those tones from my rig I have a compressor and two distortion effects in their own dedicated loop at the start of my effects chain. These are very sensitive to input gain (a Radial ToneBone Trimode and a Carl Martin PlexiTone, if that matters), and they sound best when I dial back their input, and their sound changes and cleans up a lot as that input is rolled off. I can't get the sounds I want from them if they get the full strength FX signal, so I want to attenuate the strength of their input signal, and I want to be able to adjust it for more or less grit on the fly. This is why I want a volume pedal (well...knob), to attenuate power for this specific loop and effects, not to boost power, and not for my whole chain. When I use my Mutron and other effects, I'll bypass this loop and those effects will get the full strength signal.

Anyway, as it happens I'm building this volume controlled looper right now and I want to make sure I get it right. I saw the thread on external buffers, realized I had a relevant question and tried to get it answered. I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition...
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