Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby strumminsix » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:09 am

Also pickup selection. Think of when he is in prallel modes vs regular. That would be, on a Strat, positions 2 + 4 vs 1 3 5. or on a LP up an down vs middle.
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby mijknahs » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:34 am

Rushmoreacd wrote:Thanks so much for the tips. Does anyone else have any essential information to share for this beginner?

Also, do I need an on-board pre-amp to achieve this clean sound, which I describe in my first post (I’ve read up on Garcia's UGB)? Correct me if I am wrong, but this device helps to preserve the sound of tones when using effects? If I am trying to achieve this clean sound, as I describe above, would the on-board pre-amp be necessary? Otherwise, what else achieves this, deceptively simple tone?

Thanks again.


I'd say you don't "need" the onboard preamp but it really helps if you're going to use your volume knob. I think a Fender Twin Reverb and JBLs are essential and I really noticed a big difference when using the DiMarzio Super 2 in the middle position (split coil). I'd say if you added this pickup to a Strat style guitar (25.5" scale maple neck) as opposed to a Les Paul style (24.75" mahogany) it would be closer to that sound.

However, that particular sound you mentioned (open chord Touch of Grey) is more of the sound of the cocobolo guitar resonating and the tone of the McIntosh power amp along with the other stuff mentioned.

Jim
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby Rushmoreacd » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:32 am

Thanks for the responses. I am learning a hell of a lot. This certainly is not a "basic" question, but has been very eye opening, and will be good to know as I build a new guitar and set up. This was my original intention, to start from scratch and customize a guitar adding some quintessential Jerry tonal capabilities. For this project, I am envisioning building these features into a new guitar, which I will build these components into (super 2s with coil splitters, UGB, and a Brass nut). Than I will work on building and sound system to accompany it. May be a little ambitious.

After reading over the past few days about a UGB - here and elsewhere, it seems to be a versatile and practical device, as complicated as it sounds when reading about it. I am surprised it not a standard, given the universal problems it seems to solve when working with effects. I am also surprised that no one but the first poster mentioned the addition of a brass nut. However, I am aware from other discussions that there is some debate about that. I am going to add one anyway. Might as well... What could be the harm?

Thanks so much for your help. I am learning a ton of new things, and am grateful for all of your help and advice.
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby mijknahs » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:13 am

The brass nut only affects the open strings. Not a game changer like the middle position Super 2 in single coil or the JBLs.
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby strumminsix » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:47 am

Rushmoreacd wrote:After reading over the past few days about a UGB - here and elsewhere, it seems to be a versatile and practical device, as complicated as it sounds when reading about it. I am surprised it not a standard, given the universal problems it seems to solve when working with effects.


A volume pedal at the end of the chain works equally well just different. Also, it's more of a bigger deal when working with effects that are input sensitive and you don't want to bend over and adjust if needed. By my estimation JG had a few of those while most may just have 1.
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby The Stag » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:55 pm

I am also looking for this tone this is what I have come up with so far

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvh_DGC01qk
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby Grant » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:48 pm

mijknahs wrote:
Rushmoreacd wrote:Thanks so much for the tips. Does anyone else have any essential information to share for this beginner?

Also, do I need an on-board pre-amp to achieve this clean sound, which I describe in my first post (I’ve read up on Garcia's UGB)? Correct me if I am wrong, but this device helps to preserve the sound of tones when using effects? If I am trying to achieve this clean sound, as I describe above, would the on-board pre-amp be necessary? Otherwise, what else achieves this, deceptively simple tone?

Thanks again.


I'd say you don't "need" the onboard preamp but it really helps if you're going to use your volume knob. I think a Fender Twin Reverb and JBLs are essential and I really noticed a big difference when using the DiMarzio Super 2 in the middle position (split coil). I'd say if you added this pickup to a Strat style guitar (25.5" scale maple neck) as opposed to a Les Paul style (24.75" mahogany) it would be closer to that sound.

However, that particular sound you mentioned (open chord Touch of Grey) is more of the sound of the cocobolo guitar resonating and the tone of the McIntosh power amp along with the other stuff mentioned.

Jim

From what I've played I think an LP can get closer to the tiger sound, mainly due to the glued (as opposed to bolted) neck and also the sheer quantity of wood

That being said, Mattson pulls a mighty convincing tone out of his strat.

Right about the nut, but for songs with open strings like Deal it does make a lot of difference.
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby Jerry1996x » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:09 pm

Question. Ive seen a bunch of mentions of Garcias alembic twin mods. Can these mods, as well as an AB763 mod, in any way be done to a 135 watt twin????
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby hippieguy1954 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:04 am

Jerry1996x wrote:Question. Ive seen a bunch of mentions of Garcias alembic twin mods. Can these mods, as well as an AB763 mod, in any way be done to a 135 watt twin????

Yes, it can be done. It is a little more complicated, but doable. Don't know where you are located, but there is a guy, Joe Martin in Conneticut (i think) that does it all the time. I think he had a post here not too long ago.
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby hippieguy1954 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:23 am

hippieguy1954 wrote:
Jerry1996x wrote:Question. Ive seen a bunch of mentions of Garcias alembic twin mods. Can these mods, as well as an AB763 mod, in any way be done to a 135 watt twin????

Yes, it can be done. It is a little more complicated, but doable. Don't know where you are located, but there is a guy, Joe Martin in Conneticut (i think) that does it all the time. I think he had a post here not too long ago.
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oldsmojo wrote:Hey man...been busy all week with Ultra-linear model twins. I have 2 right here I just finished and they are absolutely the best twins I've ever heard and I've blackfaced and Jerry modded over 50 difft twins from all years! I set them up to really nail the fat/clear '82 tone on one side and the cleaner late 80's tone on the other side. Both having reverb with nice long decay. The stock ultra-linears are total dogs and would actually sound pretty crappy with all these mods in them especially with the tantalum caps and metal film plate resistors. Where do you live and what did Savage say these mods would cost if you dont mind me asking? ~Joe Martin
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby Jerry1996x » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:45 am

Awesome! I have heard from some people that it couldnt be done. good to know that it can.
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby Cmnaround » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:00 pm

Ok I'm not trying to be a dick by asking this, but middle position pick up split to single coil all the time? Jerry really played like that all the time? Then why did he have 3 double coil hunbuckers if only using the middle pick up set to single coil? I havent taken the time to go back and look at tons of photos to confirm, but was he really playing with only that selection all the time and never using his double coils in bridge or neck position?
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby hippieguy1954 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:06 pm

If you search the "Jerry tone" and "The think tank" discussions and poke around there too, you will find all the information you need. Jerry did not just use the middle pickup all the time. He used the other pickups, in cluding humbucker for various things.
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby mijknahs » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:14 pm

Cmnaround wrote:Ok I'm not trying to be a dick by asking this, but middle position pick up split to single coil all the time? Jerry really played like that all the time? Then why did he have 3 double coil hunbuckers if only using the middle pick up set to single coil? I havent taken the time to go back and look at tons of photos to confirm, but was he really playing with only that selection all the time and never using his double coils in bridge or neck position?


All we can do is listen and look at the pics and videos. Is is amazing how much you see that pickup selector in that "straight up" middle position. Once you are used to hearing that single coil Super II middle position sound, you can hear when he switches to the bridge pickup (like in that key change in the China Cat second solo and some of the "country" songs). I also saw him switch to the neck pickup at the beginning of the Birdsong solo on the '87 NYE video (Ticket to New Year's).

I think in the later 80's (like '88 - '89 and beyond) he started using the in-between positions more. At least that's what it sounds like to me. But still even then his "signature sound" was still the middle position split coil.
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Re: Help with basic clean 80's Garcia tone

Postby waldo041 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:58 pm

Jerry1996x wrote:Question. Ive seen a bunch of mentions of Garcias alembic twin mods. Can these mods, as well as an AB763 mod, in any way be done to a 135 watt twin????



sure can. just perform all the post or pre alembic preamp mods(your choice) i have on my webpage for the preamp and have your tech just tighten up the power section for really clean output. oh and drop the stock fender master volume circuit and place a 250k pot inbetween the preamp and the power section, right at the 220k mix resistors node and the phase inverter.

peace,
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