late Jerry Tone

Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby Capt Rosebuddy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:37 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKhM-Ed8R8k

I'll still take this any day over the obscene flagrant money grab that is GDM and related acts today.
Jerry was totally checked out in the last 18 months or so, the in ear thing had a lot to do with all of it, the equipment change had a ton to do with it, and Healy being fired had a lot to do with it. the thing is that the band wanted the in ear thing, they where sick of each other and had frankly stopped giving a shit. I did tour most of the summer in '94 and almost all of '95, and every night I hopped Garcia would snap out of it and PLAY! but he was just really a shell of his former self and the tone suffered along with everything else that was going on at the time, they where very dark days, especially out on the lot... Frankly I was kind of bracing myself for what would happen if he collapsed onstage which seemed altogether likely, he was visibly confused and just not there.

So the Cripe/Trio tone was what it was, really a side note to the endgame of The Grateful Dead, That said it fit some of the new material LRR, So Many roads not to mention Days Between, IMO Jerry's glassy tone fit perfectly in with those numbers, it was fragile just like he was at the time.
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:04 pm

So true Capt Rosebuddy.

Thanks!
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby mijknahs » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:48 pm

Capt Rosebuddy wrote:...he was visibly confused and just not there.


I saw a few shows in 1994 and 1995 after not seeing them since Laguna Seca 1989. It was "different" to say the least.
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby JamminJommy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:52 pm

Checking my tape collection, Fall 94 doesn't sound so thin, but 95 sounds all-together lifeless. Rosebud vs. Cripe?

RANDOM. In searching through this I found a Scarlet/Fire in which Jer uses a Whammy pedal? 5/26/95

Anyway, the So Many Roads tapes I have sound really good with the acoustic style tone, so I'm inclined to agree.

Peace,

Jommy

P.S. I never saw them (I'm too young)- so I'd be jacked to see them even if I though Jerry's tone sounded like shit! :cool:
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby jahozer » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:28 pm

Capt Rosebuddy wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKhM-Ed8R8k

I'll still take this any day over the obscene flagrant money grab that is GDM and related acts today.

I saw alot of shows from the 80s til 95. I agree with everything except that line. Its not obscene for the original musicians to provide the music we and they love on a road tour. Phil is 70 and on a second liver. Its not easy, and I think they still play on a level that many bands can not. They also do not really hype themselves up, since most people have no idea who Furthur is, let alone 7 walkers. This board is dedicated to all of us capturing "that" sound and experience. Some of us get paid for it, because people still want it. Why is it an obscene money grab for the guys responsible for creating it to continue to provide it and make money at it? If people want to buy GDM merchandise, then who is harmed? They are still really cool with all the free stuff.

I guess the other thing I dont agree with, is them not giving a shit at the end. I agree to a point that they were absolutely sick of each other, (Im sick of my coworkers and my band is on my nerves, too! :lol:) but I think they were early adopters of technology, and remember that 95 was a looooong time ago, especially in terms of technology. There were numerous articles about how they were so on the hook to their crew and employees, that they were trying to pare down their inventory and trying new technology to achieve a smaller footprint. Those dudes carted around alot of fragile gear. Look at the posts here about axe fx. Its a technology that is not the old way, but its certainly not used out of not giving a fuck, its trying new things to save some vertebrae!
And back then, digital was the new hope. "The crisp clean highs of digital recording!" Not the mucky din of tape hiss and analog murk...
Hindsight is almost always a perfect 20 20, but although it doesnt seem it after that ramble, I do agree with most of what you said!

I bet if Jerry didnt die we would have seen the hiatus of 96-98, but then the boys would have been back rippin it up.
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby The Stag » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:20 pm

but jerrys acoustic tone wasent just the with the dead he had it for the garcia band also and there is noooooo way you will ever convince me or anyone else who likes jerry and acually listens for the emotion he used in his playing unlike many others that he just settled. you all say his "retreat" was the garcia band well he had the acoustic tone there to so he obvoulsy liked it. and if he didnt care why did he continue to use a 13 pound guitar over a 5 pound strat? plus the grateful dead had the best technitions at the time working with them so they had no promblems with sound jerry could hear it fine. so many roads peggyo days between even jackaro are epic songs brought to life with this sound and you think he didnt like it?fool Dan Jr
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby jahozer » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:01 am

I think that attenuated glassy high tone was a product of 3 things.
A. The time period- crisp clean digital/solid state highs were what most bands were striving for. Remember going to a music store and looking for a tube amp? The metal head working there would laugh at you in the 80s. Christ listen to the sounds Brent would choose in the late 80s. Same glassy synthy tone because that what was relevant at the time. (lets not talk of Vince's ice cream truck sounds, though, please)

B. Adjusting to the new technology. Once you drop the coin on a big new system like that, you are kind of stuck with it for a while. They would have tweaked it if time could have wore on for them.

C. Jerrys ears were blown. Think of the end of a bar gig, everybody turns way the fuck up, because your ears are fatigued and it sounds like mud. Everyone blasts the highs to make up for it. I think Jerry lost the abilities to hear some of the highs permanently. I know I have, and I have never come close to standing in front of the wall of sound, or any of the volume they put out.

Yeah, Jerry was burnt, but he was sick. Physically sick from diabetes. Anyone around a diabetic knows that diabetes is a mood altering disease. Poorly managed diabetes + continually sick from years of junk and junk food= moody jerk. If he could have cleaned up and managed his disease, we would have seen a rebound like no other.
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby strumminsix » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:16 am

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:It's pretty simple and in this age of in-ear monitors, a lot of bands do off-stage amp miking. Typically it's in a sound-isolated box with the speaker cab and mic inside. Really a simple idea, but would take the effort to set it up.


I know I like to flaunt my opinionated distaste for the crispy '94 DI tone, but much of it is to stir shit up around here for kicks. And to be fair, there were points in '95 where I honestly wondered if they had maybe done the off-stage JBL thing because the tone had improved quite a bit in my opinion since '93. And in '95 I wasn't nearly as bothered by it as in the two previous years where it honestly made it hard for me to enjoy Jerry at times. Maybe in '95 it was still DI but with better EQ at the board, at the rig, some type of electronic speaker emulation, etc. I'd guess that it was still DI'd, but just refined to sound warmer and more natural like an electric guitar tone.

B

In the spirit of shock/shit stirring, I'll add in this: folks go around and talk about tone being in the hands. Anyone think that this has more to do with it that anything else?
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby playingdead » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:02 am

Tone aside -- and I saw the bulk of my 80 or so Dead shows between 1978 and 1988, so the Tiger tone is firmly planted in my mind as the best -- it's extremely difficult for me to even listen to anything from the last two or three years that Jerry was with us.

Jerry's playing was always very precise and exact, he made every note count, and talked a lot about "positive" note feel. He would have these amazing bursts of transcendent guitar playing where the notes would be cascading out of his guitar as if he could barely control them, like sparks from one of those fireworks fountains -- but very rarely would there be a clunker note in there. Listen to the guitar solo at the end of Morning Dew from this show and you can hear what I'm talking about ... there's one little moment way up the neck where he's a fret off, but every other little note, and he's playing very fast, is perfect.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1987-0 ... y.394.shnf

Now flash forward to the last time I saw the Dead, at Tampa Stadium in April of 1995. While there were moments of terrific soloing, Jerry was mostly asleep through this performance. But even when he was "on" during this show, his playing was sloppy as hell. He does a nice solo on Loose Lucy, but it's full of mistakes and near misses. He did nice solos on Eyes of the World, but Unbroken Chain, Samba in the Rain and Days Between were trainwrecks, full of clams and sometimes it sounded like he didn't even know what key he was supposed to be playing in.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1995-0 ... lac.flac16

If you saw him a lot during those peak years of the band with Brent, it was just such a tragedy to see those shows in 94 and 95. I went because I loved him and his music, but from a guitar player's standpoint listening to every note (thin tone and all), it was just so damn sad.
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:33 am

Indeed Vic. That was the saddest part for me. Jerry up there so wasted, so asleep, so worn, so disconnected, barely standing. The slop was heartbreaking, not just because it was the occasional musical mistake, but it was the sound of Jerry not really there anymore. Like you, I enjoyed my biggest dose of the Dead thru the '80s, and even watching Jerry get sick and nearly die in the mid '80s, he would still play back then, really tear it up. And then the late '80s were just magic and stellar in my book. The vitality and excitement the band had, their technical and musical maturity... From '87 till Brent died in '90, man in some ways that was pinnacle GD in my opinion. But by the end the last 2 or 3 years, the really good moments (and there definitely were some) were so few and far between, it just wasn't the same band or same guy or same experience anymore.

And I continue to meet Deadheads that tell me I totally missed the REAL good stuff because I wasn't there for the Pigpen and Keith years. I trust they're right on some level.

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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby vwjodyme » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:51 am

guess i haven't listened to days between in awhile...very harpsichordy
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby playingdead » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:02 am

I only saw Keith during the era when he was just as apt to nod off onstage or pound repeatedly on a single note (that was Utica, Jan. of 79, if I recall correctly), but I'll bet those Europe 72 shows with him and Pig were epic to witness.

The archive.org comments on that Utica show are amusing:

"This was the last show before Donna quit (yeah!). They were mid-way through the first set when Keith woke up from his keyboard and staggered over to where Donna was standing and popped a balloon right behind Donna's head. She turned around and smacked Keith across the face and walked off. It was a terrible show."

The next night on the tour was, I believe, Shea's Theater in Buffalo ... they were late coming out, and came out and played without Donna and Jerry's croaking away with bronchitis. Nonetheless, a KILLER show and terrific audience recording up on archive ... great recording for the Weir fans, listen to his guitar on Promised Land, Jack Straw, Used to Love Her, Peggy-o ... and there's a Dark Star, to boot. The rumor was Keith punched out Donna during a brawl backstage that night. She left the tour and only played the final show in 2-17-79 after that.
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby strumminsix » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:36 am

playingdead wrote:I only saw Keith during the era when he was just as apt to nod off onstage or pound repeatedly on a single note (that was Utica, Jan. of 79, if I recall correctly), but I'll bet those Europe 72 shows with him and Pig were epic to witness.

The archive.org comments on that Utica show are amusing:

"This was the last show before Donna quit (yeah!). They were mid-way through the first set when Keith woke up from his keyboard and staggered over to where Donna was standing and popped a balloon right behind Donna's head. She turned around and smacked Keith across the face and walked off. It was a terrible show."

The next night on the tour was, I believe, Shea's Theater in Buffalo ... they were late coming out, and came out and played without Donna and Jerry's croaking away with bronchitis. Nonetheless, a KILLER show and terrific audience recording up on archive ... great recording for the Weir fans, listen to his guitar on Promised Land, Jack Straw, Used to Love Her, Peggy-o ... and there's a Dark Star, to boot. The rumor was Keith punched out Donna during a brawl backstage that night. She left the tour and only played the final show in 2-17-79 after that.

Wow, wow, wow.
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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby mkaufman » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:08 am

After Buffalo, they played Detroit. I was there and Keith was asleep at the piano the entire night. Terrible show - started at 10 PM due to equipment delay. It was bitterly cold outside and they wouldn't open the doors.

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Re: late Jerry Tone

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:35 am

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:And I continue to meet Deadheads that tell me I totally missed the REAL good stuff because I wasn't there for the Pigpen and Keith years. I trust they're right on some level.


I would agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Honestly, I have a hard time even watching the newly-released DVDs of the late 80s despite the amazing quality, but I can't get enough of the GDM.
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