barre chords

When it doesn't fit anywhere else

barre chords

Postby ker1227 » Sun May 13, 2007 8:41 pm

what i think i am seeing is 2 sets of chords(6th string, "F" shape and the 5th string "B" shape. If that is correct, is there any way , beside just by ear, to arrange a song? Ie the D C G D of rider.
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Postby IamDocWatson » Mon May 14, 2007 2:05 am

look at the notes of your chord and locate them anywhere on the neck there a bunch of ways to voice chords, but heres some....take your open C chord and move it up 1 whole step so you root note is a D. change your fingering so your pinky is on the D fifth string fifth fret then continue your C form and bar behind it with your index for a D chord so it would be like this

Code: Select all
e-2
B-3
G-2
D-4
A-5
E-x


use that as a guide you can do that with your C A G E & D chord forms...if you dont know the caged system its very easy and helpful for what your talking about
"Octaves full of voices, sweet voices belie"
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Postby ker1227 » Mon May 14, 2007 6:29 am

thanks, that really helps
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Postby ker1227 » Mon May 14, 2007 10:26 am

I need to learn that CAGED system you where talking about. Are there any other tricks/tip/systems that i should be learnign along with the CAGED and the barre chords?
oh and your not really doc watson are you? haha
have you ever been to merlfest? i went this year and i dont think ill ever miss it again! I loved the mando madness.
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Postby CaptainTrips » Mon May 14, 2007 8:18 pm

Code: Select all
This is my approach to becoming familiar with finding the location of
different inversions of the same chord on the entire neck of the guitar.
The common open chords played at the nut and their shapes are the basis of
this approach. This is very similar to what has recently been called the
CAGED system, the name of which is an acronym of the open chord-shapes
used: C-shape, A-shape, G-shape, E-shape and D-shape (C,A G,E,D). By gain-
ing a familiarity with these shapes and how they lead into and become one
another, it becomes as easy to find any inversion (differently fingered or
voiced form of the same chord) anywhere on the neck in any shape as it is
to work with the common E-shaped barre-chord used so easily by so many.
And then to progress into the more subtle voicings of basic chords as well.
One way of imagining the concept is almost as if you were first asked to
play a regular open at-the-nut C-chord, and then another C with a capo on the 
third fret (using an A-shape), then a capo on the fifth fret (a G-shape),
a capo on the eighth fret (an E-shape) and finally with a capo on the
tenth fret (using a D-shape). Then it of course begins to repeat all over
again at the 12th-fret an octave higher. Not quite that simple, but almost.
I'm using the C-chord as an example (because if I'd started with another
chord, like say E, than I'd have to call it the EDCAG system, and that
doesn't spell anything! :LOL: Anyway, here goes..........




This is a diagram of a GUITAR NECK, not tab-lines. The symbol "0" shows the
location of your finger fretting that note in that fret position. It doesn't
mean open. Notes shown as "(0)" in parentheses are notes that fall within
the chord's major triad (its 1st, 3rd, 5th that make up a major chord), but
are not generally used even though they could be used if that chord-form
voicing, or inversion, if preferred.


Starting with the commonly played at-the-nut C-chord, you play.....

E||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
B||--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
G||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
D||-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
A||-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
E||-----|-----|-(0)-|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
  ^                 ^           ^           ^           ^                 ^
 nut               3rd         5th         7th         9th             12th

Common open C-shaped C-chord....

                                 ......which leads to.......


E||-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
B||-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
G||-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
D||-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
A||-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
E||-----|-----|-(0)-|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
  ^                 ^           ^           ^           ^                 ^
 nut               3rd         5th         7th         9th             12th

              The A-shaped C-chord.....
                                       
                                       .....which leads to.........


E||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
B||-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
G||-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
D||-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
A||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
E||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
  ^                 ^           ^           ^           ^                 ^
 nut               3rd         5th         7th         9th             12th

                        The G-shaped C-chord.....

                                                ....which leads to....


E||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
B||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
G||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|
D||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|
A||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|
E||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
  ^                 ^           ^           ^           ^                 ^
 nut               3rd         5th         7th         9th             12th

                            The E-shaped C-chord....

                                                  ....which leads to....



E||----|----|----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|
B||----|----|----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-0-
G||----|----|----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|
D||----|----|----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-(0)-|-----|-----|
A||----|----|----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-(0)-|-----|-----|
E||----|----|----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|
  ^              ^           ^           ^           ^                 ^
 nut            3rd         5th         7th         9th             12th

                                                  The D-shaped C-chord...

Which brings you up to the 12th fret where, the 2nd-string/first-fret note
begins the pattern over again at the next octave. The entire pattern up
the board looking like this........


E||-----|-----|--0--|----|-----|----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|----|--0--|
B||--0--|-----|-----|----|--0--|----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|----|-----|-0-
G||-----|-----|-----|----|--0--|----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|----|--0--|
D||-----|--0--|-----|----|--0--|----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|----|-----|
A||-----|-----|--0--|----|-----|----|--0--|-----|-----|--0--|----|-----|
E||-----|-----|-(0)-|----|-----|----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|----|--0--|
  ^                 ^          ^          ^           ^                ^
 nut               3rd        5th        7th         9th            12th

  C-shape area...A-shape area...G-shape area.....E-shape area......D-shape



Becoming familiar with these shapes and patterns allows you to move up or
down the fret-board within them easily as well as the ability to use
chord-fragments, or partial pieces of these shapes/chords which can be
played individually or strung into a linear pattern. Used linearly, you
can arpeggiate flowingly or create note-lines, choosing say a treblier
flow, like this for example.......


E||-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|--0--|
B||--0--|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|
G||-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|--0--|
D||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
A||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
E||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
  ^                 ^           ^           ^           ^                 ^
 nut               3rd         5th         7th         9th             12th


.....or a bassier line.....

E||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
B||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
G||-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|
D||-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|
A||-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|
E||-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|--0--|
  ^                 ^           ^           ^           ^                 ^
 nut               3rd         5th         7th         9th             12th


....or of course any combination of both that you may want to use. And of
course any of those shapes can be combined with part of the shapes above
or below it. For example 7 8 10 0 X X is a C-chord that combines parts of
three separate shapes (the open C-shape, the open G-shape and the open
E-shape) into a C-chord. The more familiar you become with the pattern,
the more ways you can find to use it.

Now, expanding just a little bit on that shown above. Once you are familiar
with all the shapes above and comfortable locating and using them on the
fretboard, you can draw on the knowledge you have of THOSE SHAPES THEMSELVES
when used to form the common open chord OF THAT SHAPE. For example, it's
easy to remember how to change an open A-chord X02220 into an A7 X02223.
You just add that 7th note on the first string. Or it can be changed to an
A7 by holding X02020, changing that 3rd-string to open. Same with a simple
open E-chord 022100. Just add the note on the 2nd-string...022130, or change
the 4th-string from 022100 into the E7 chord 020100. The common G-chord
can be changed from 320003 to a 7th by using 320001 or 323003. A D-chord
by changing from the common (2)00232 to the 7th-chord X00212.  All of
this knowledge can be applied in the same way TO THE SAME SHAPES up or
down the neck. Here is the entire C-pattern (shown above as major chords)
with some of the 7th-notes added (shown as a "(7)")


E||----|----|--0--|-----|-----|-(7)-|----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|--0--|
B||-0--|----|-----|-----|--0--|-----|----|--0--|-----|-----|-(7)-|-----|-0-
G||----|----|-(7)-|-----|--0--|-----|----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|--0--|
D||----|-0--|-----|-----|--0--|-----|----|-(7)-|-----|--0--|-----|-----|
A||----|----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|-0--|-----|-----|--0--|-----|-----|
E||----|----|-(0)-|-----|-----|-----|----|--0--|-----|-----|-----|--0--|
  ^               ^           ^          ^           ^                 ^
 nut             3rd         5th        7th         9th             12th

  C-shape area...A-shape area...G-shape area.....E-shape area......D-shape

   (now C7-shape....A7-shape.....G7-shape.........E7-shape......D7-shape)

Now I haven't shown every 7th note necessarily, just the more common ways
that the chord-shapes are changed in the open positions. This same logic
applies to all other voicing-changes, like from a major into a minor, or
into a suspended chord, or an augmented chord, or a 9th....whatever. The
more you are familiar with how to change the voicings on the simple open
chords, the more this basic information can me moved up or down and then
applied to THEIR SHAPES anywhere on the neck.


Being familiar with this information has a secondary use as well. Knowing
the locations of certain simple parts of a chord, like its 1st or 3rd or
5th (or its 7th, etc) will give you locator points-of-reference to make
more complex changes, or to swing scales from in lead work. That's why the
knowledge of chord-building is of so much importance. You don't have to
really think in terms of chords themselves, but in CHORD-SHAPES. Take all
of that information on the neck-diagrams shown above. That was all in ref-
erence to working with a C-chord. Grasping the pattern and movements and
relationships of the shapes themselves makes it easy to take that same
pattern, and by simply in effect moving the pattern two frets ---> you
now have all of that applied to a D-chord. Or three frets <---- opens it
up for A. And so on. Think of the pattern as the Constant that will
never change in how it works or in its application. And think of the fret-
board itself as the Variable that changes beneath that Constant pattern,
almost as if the fret-board was a tread-mill that will rotate below the
fixed pattern of the shapes above it, changing chords and keys as it does.


Anyway, I hope that helps!
[/code]
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Postby ker1227 » Tue May 15, 2007 5:19 am

WOW!, thanks captain trips, thats great
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Postby LazyLightnin » Tue May 15, 2007 7:28 am

it's all about using triads, specially with the Dead. for the C just barre the G,C,E with your first finger, nevermind the root C. this leaves you free to then form the F in the "D" shape form. and from the F move your pinky from its root F (8th fret) down to your D (7th fret G string) to make a D minor. then youll see that the A chord is also right there, also in the scale. playing the C chord in triad form leaves you free to solo or do licks off the chord since your only using 1 finger, you can freely solo over the other chord forms while still barring the triad C simply becuz they belong in the scale.

try playing candyman using those few chord shapes, you'll see that you will only have to move your wrist only a fret or two a couple times in the song to find the next chord. using the triad C and "D" shaped F in the song also gives you windows for small licks that can be coordinated much easier.

this also enables you to slide up chords to different positions for better "flavoring" of the sound you want.

playing like this really helped me. its basically the CAGED thing. i dunno i geuss im kinda unorthodox 8)
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