LSD a cure for alcoholism

When it doesn't fit anywhere else

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby RiverRat » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:18 am

paulinnc wrote:Bill Wilson, co-founder of AA, participated in some LSD experiments in the 50's and he found that it wasn't quite right for him. If my memory serves me, I think Bill was seeking treatment for very severe depression. That particular event is mentioned in a book about the history of AA, I can't recall the title though.



The book about Bill Wison's experience was Pass It On. One of the studies cited in the paper was done by Humphrey Osmond, the same person that turned on Bill W. There is only anecdotes about how long Bill experimented with LSD, or why he ultimately abandoned that avenue. It's said to have been between 2 and 6 years and one of the reasons for renouncing it as a possible aid for suffering alcoholics was the fact that it wasn't in line with the total abstinence philosophy of AA. Bill Wilson was looking for something that would accelerate the "spiritual awakening" portion of the program and he believed that hallucinogens might be the answer.

ugly rumor wrote:The original thread was that LSD is not a cure for alcoholism, in the sense that you take a tab or two and are cured, but that it was used with a high success rate by medical clinics to aid alcoholics in achieving sobriety. It is not like taking aspirin for a cold. Like most things that are not understood, it should be avoided by those who don't "get it".


Link to the actual paper:

http://jop.sagepub.com/content/early/20 ... 3.full.pdf

This is right on the mark, the doses used in the studies that were analyzed ranged from 210 to 800ug, the median average was 500ug. The median average dose of commonly available blotter is 50ug.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd ... m_1987.pdf

I'm sure that a WHOLE debate could erupt about individual blotter dosage amounts but the DEA has been conducting these studies for 40 years and the data has been pretty much consistent over time. The studies in the paper are not like taking a hit but more like a ten strip.


Mr.Burns wrote: LSD never killed anyone. Cannabis never killed anyone. If these things scare you, take a Valium.


Of the 3 drugs listed, the valium has the highest probability to result in an accidental fatality. Benzo's are bad shit PERIOD!

----------------------------------------------------------

All of the studies referenced used a screening process to eliminate people with previous psychological issues, this simply doesn't happen when someone scores tabs at a show. It's a simple fact that the people that LSD "breaks" were already cracked and LSD was the catalyst to break them. Any number of different traumatic events could have broken them in time.
RiverRat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 959
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:38 am

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby Mr.Burns » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:34 am

RiverRat wrote:
Mr.Burns wrote: LSD never killed anyone. Cannabis never killed anyone. If these things scare you, take a Valium.


Of the 3 drugs listed, the valium has the highest probability to result in an accidental fatality. Benzo's are bad shit PERIOD!

----------------------------------------------------------

All of the studies referenced used a screening process to eliminate people with previous psychological issues, this simply doesn't happen when someone scores tabs at a show. It's a simple fact that the people that LSD "breaks" were already cracked and LSD was the catalyst to break them. Any number of different traumatic events could have broken them in time.


Thank you kind sir for doing the research I'm too lazy to do. You've said the most true statement about LSD I've ever heard. I have a cousin that this statement describes perfectly. I agree 100%, my comment about Valium was sarcasm, most people are scared shitless of psychedelics but would take a benzo or narcotic painkiller RIGHT NOW, no problem.
Image
User avatar
Mr.Burns
Phil
Phil
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:01 pm
Location: Far out, man.

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby hippieguy1954 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:12 am

Ahhhhhhhh, it seems like we are all getting on the same page with this! :smile: :smile: :smile:
Image
First show: 1973
Last show: 1994
User avatar
hippieguy1954
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:29 pm
Location: Upstate, NY

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby easytoslip » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:51 am

Mr.Burns wrote:
easytoslip wrote:I don't know, your side of the debate simply says 'he who is strongest wins'. My side of the debate is much more involved than simply being able to fight your way through something. At some point, the physical body is not able to win. If you have gotten to that point where you surrender to that fact, there lies your path to spirituality. Your argument is all body. I'm talking about body, mind, spirit, emotion, many different facets. So, nice try, but I'm not convinced.


This has nothing to do with strength. Who ever heard of "mental strength"? What I'm talking about is being able to think clearly on it, or possibly even more clearly than when not on acid.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I don't need to, or even remotely want to. I'm starting to think you have no real experience in this area. Or possibly more experience with strychnine than acid. This is common, someone takes some blotter for the first time and thinks they were supposed to see snakes and patterns and lots of other scary stuff thats caused by strychnine. I'll say it again, you're responsible for what you put in your body, so why on earth would you ingest something unless you were 100% sure of its contents?


We're obviously very different people and I'm happy to back down and let you be the better one. As I said previously, I took maybe five acid trips in my life and have been all over the place in the discoveries of mental health and unhealth. I DEFINITELY have more experience in areas of books, medicine, studying, research, and sober days, than I ever will in areas of illegal drug use. Doesn't mean I judge others harshly for playing around with hallucinogens, they just aren't for me, and I came into this thread to increase my own understanding, not others' understanding on the subject.
User avatar
easytoslip
Rosemary
Rosemary
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:54 am

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby Mr.Burns » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:25 am

You would perhaps be right to judge others harshly for "playing around with hallucinogens". LSD is not to be "played with". It should not be "taken lightly". :lol:

All kidding aside, from what I've heard, Owsley dosages were much higher than a typical modern "dose". Apparently he did not care for half-measures. If you were gonna do it, you were gonna do it right. :cool:
Image
User avatar
Mr.Burns
Phil
Phil
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:01 pm
Location: Far out, man.

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby ugly rumor » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:02 am

Having been one who has taken an Owsley dose, I can attest that it was very good, clean, and i enjoyed it very much. However, his doses were very precise, very exact, and I would estimate between 250-500 mics. I was also in those days involved in selling LSD, and I never had a complaint about his; only requests for more.

There is a myth about strychnine and LSD. Strychnine is not a component. I would say that most who think they are experiencing strychnine are either taking something else, or taking LSD that was not properly prepared. LSD requires sophisticated laboratory equipment to make, and some components involved in its manufacture are highly regulated by the government, so that you have to be licensed to possess access to them, or you have to steal them. Chrome plating shops used to be able to get at least one of these components legally, but that may have changed. The point being that LSD is sometimes manufactured at substandard quality and the experience is approximated. Therefore the strychnine myth. You have to be really committed to invest the perhaps $10,000 required to set up a laboratory, take the time and invest the effort required to have a good product, and then be able to move it. More than most people can do. Ecstacy and other approximations consequently surface and pass themselves off. Many who think they've done acid haven't, and really good acid is extremely rare. Mushrooms are safer, easier, and better quality.
Gone are the days we stopped to decide where we should go, we just ride...
ugly rumor
Bobby
Bobby
 
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:33 am
Location: Virginia

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby Mr.Burns » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:17 am

I'm fairly certain ecstasy predates LSD, so it can't really be an approximation. I believe a German lab invented it before the first World War, and it was confiscated and then shelved for many years.

Since it emerged here in the 70's, after widespread use of LSD, the misconception is common that it is a sort of "copycat". I don't care for it, just wanted to share that info.
Image
User avatar
Mr.Burns
Phil
Phil
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:01 pm
Location: Far out, man.

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby Octal » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Mr.Burns wrote:Finnegan's Wake was completed at least 10(20?) years prior to the world's first trip by Albert Hoffman. Strange that it would seem to perfectly describe some aspects of higher consciousness gained through psychedelics...especially since it was written as an alliteration of a dream...and comedy to boot...

Joyce was light years beyond the levels of consciousness most of us can grasp, and without EVER having taken LSD. What if he had taken it? Would he have lost his shit, completely freaked, never-to-return, perma-spun?

Pg. 107, 325 and 418 (I'm sure there are other references to L S and D letter combinations) of the Wake mentions LSD.

Ten years after? Ten years before if you go the other way around the circle.


People who can't do acid?
Image
Octal
Terrapin
Terrapin
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Olympia, WA

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby wolftigerrosebud » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:12 pm

At least they're enjoying the ride!

My balls are really skillful Trip-Hers. They can make good trips out of any sitchuation! The good vibes flow very freely from my balls.

Oh, no! You're divorced? Why in God's name are you even still standing here? I think this is very rude.

Ode to an Air Conditioner

Bad Salad! I HATE it.

I said "I'M A LESBIAN!"

Right and left with only fuzz.

Will you be the MUFF in Can Man! Ban tan! :hail: :hail: :thewave:

:deadhorse
User avatar
wolftigerrosebud
Rosemary
Rosemary
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:14 am

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby hippieguy1954 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:50 pm

wolftigerrosebud wrote:At least they're enjoying the ride!

My balls are really skillful Trip-Hers. They can make good trips out of any sitchuation! The good vibes flow very freely from my balls.

Oh, no! You're divorced? Why in God's name are you even still standing here? I think this is very rude.

Ode to an Air Conditioner

Bad Salad! I HATE it.

I said "I'M A LESBIAN!"

Right and left with only fuzz.

Will you be the MUFF in Can Man! Ban tan! :hail: :hail: :thewave:

:deadhorse


Excellent! There ya go! :smile: :smile: :smile:
Image
First show: 1973
Last show: 1994
User avatar
hippieguy1954
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:29 pm
Location: Upstate, NY

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby hippieguy1954 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:53 pm

Good ol' "Box of Rain" comes to mind also! Not stream of conscious, but so poetic! :smile: :smile: :smile:

Look out of any window
any morning, any evening, any day
Maybe the sun is shining
birds are winging or
rain is falling from a heavy sky -
What do you want me to do,
to do for you to see you through?
this is all a dream we dreamed
one afternoon long ago
Walk out of any doorway
feel your way, feel your way
like the day before
Maybe you'll find direction
around some corner
where it's been waiting to meet you -
What do you want me to do,
to watch for you while you're sleeping?
Well please don't be surprised
when you find me dreaming too


Look into any eyes
you find by you, you can see
clear through to another day
I know it's been seen before
through other eyes on other days
while going home --
What do you want me to do,
to do for you to see you through?
It's all a dream we dreamed
one afternoon long ago


Walk into splintered sunlight
Inch your way through dead dreams
to another land
Maybe you're tired and broken
Your tongue is twisted
with words half spoken
and thoughts unclear
What do you want me to do
to do for you to see you through
A a box of rain will ease the pain
and love will see you through


Just a box of rain -
wind and water -
Believe it if you need it,
if you don't just pass it on
Sun and shower -
Wind and rain -
in and out the window
like a moth before a flame


It's just a box of rain
I don't know who put it there
Believe it if you need it
or leave it if you dare
But it's just a box of rain
or a ribbon for your hair
Such a long long time to be gone
and a short time to be there
Image
First show: 1973
Last show: 1994
User avatar
hippieguy1954
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:29 pm
Location: Upstate, NY

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby Mr.Burns » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:26 pm

Octal wrote:Pg. 107, 325 and 418 (I'm sure there are other references to L S and D letter combinations) of the Wake mentions LSD.

Ten years after? Ten years before if you go the other way around the circle.


I think the Wake contains these and other examples of almost any three letter combination you care to find, should you look.

Speaking of the Wake, in regards to linguistics, it's all in there. Add to that the endless fun Joyce had with misspelled words, I'm not surprised it's mentioned.

You're right about Bob, but my, what a pretty pony!
Last edited by Mr.Burns on Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Mr.Burns
Phil
Phil
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:01 pm
Location: Far out, man.

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby wolftigerrosebud » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:29 pm

"Jesus taken serious by many; Jesus taken joyous by a few"

Those are great lyrics, too.

This thread's going somewhere. It may be coming or going. How dull.

But let's continue. Tell me more. Opine to me, baby.
User avatar
wolftigerrosebud
Rosemary
Rosemary
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:14 am

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby wolftigerrosebud » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:31 pm

Image
Image

My, my!
User avatar
wolftigerrosebud
Rosemary
Rosemary
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:14 am

Re: LSD a cure for alcoholism

Postby Octal » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:45 pm

Have any of you guys ever finished a thought before you began thinking it?
Octal
Terrapin
Terrapin
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Olympia, WA

PreviousNext

Return to Everything Else

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 2 guests