Dark Star Orchestra

When it doesn't fit anywhere else

Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby Phil Lesh101 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:14 pm

At least i'm not the only one here who thinks they are great...
"I didn't ask them to misspell anything to prove their authenticity, but I believe they're legit." ~ Rusty The Scoob.
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby dleonard » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:22 pm

I feel obligated to weigh in on this. The nitpicking on Mattson and Kadlecik is crazy. I agree that Mattson likes to go around a few times, but I for one have never wanted him to stop. I've also been to some DSO shows that were the 1972, 30 songs a night era, and he didn't go long at all. As for Kadlecik, do you think Phil and Weir would put up with a guy who's not being himself and just copping the licks?
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby Mr.Burns » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:59 pm

That was pretty much what JK was doing in DSO, copping the licks, at least to my ears. Isn't that the idea, after all? Of DSO, I mean.
No matter, I'd rather hear Mattson than JK at this point, I'm not sure why...

A little off topic, I love the Park West. It's been way too long since I've seen a show there. And speaking of damn close, Eaton is so close its creepy, for anyone who hasn't seen them yet. So close it freaks Bobby out.
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby The Stag » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:28 pm

I dont understand why jk's guitar dosent sound better. whenever I go to see dso mattsons guitar sounds almost exact to the era show they are playing, but whenever I see furthur jk has the same cheesy sounding guitar and its mostly anoying. Also the way mattson sings is exellent, I personally never got the chance to see Jerry live, but, id have to say mattsons singing is closer. especsially since i heard jk do a "comes a time" at CMAC and it was horrible....he ruined that song.
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby wolftigerrosebud » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:07 am

yes, but he doesn't argue with phil

:P
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby The Stag » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:52 pm

who does argue with phil? I said nothing about his personality I'm just wondering why he is with furthur instead of somone better mmmmmmkay
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby Mr.Burns » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:14 am

wolftigerrosebud wrote:yes, but he doesn't argue with phil


I think you mean Jill...
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby Octal » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:43 am

The Stag wrote:who does argue with phil? I said nothing about his personality I'm just wondering why he is with furthur instead of somone better mmmmmmkay

So you're saying there is somewhere you'd rather be playing other than up on stage with Phil and Bobby?

Maybe the music is better somewhere else, but it's quite an honor.
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby Grateful Dad » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:23 am

The Stag wrote:I dont understand why jk's guitar dosent sound better. whenever I go to see dso mattsons guitar sounds almost exact to the era show they are playing, but whenever I see furthur jk has the same cheesy sounding guitar and its mostly anoying. Also the way mattson sings is exellent, I personally never got the chance to see Jerry live, but, id have to say mattsons singing is closer. especsially since i heard jk do a "comes a time" at CMAC and it was horrible....he ruined that song.


Who's your choice? Name some names of guitarists who realistically would fit in with Furthur's music and schedule.
John K. has played very well every time I have seen the band. No complaints here.....I'm just thankful these guys are still touring well past retirement age!
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby The Stag » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:02 am

Grateful Dad wrote:
The Stag wrote:I dont understand why jk's guitar dosent sound better. whenever I go to see dso mattsons guitar sounds almost exact to the era show they are playing, but whenever I see furthur jk has the same cheesy sounding guitar and its mostly anoying. Also the way mattson sings is exellent, I personally never got the chance to see Jerry live, but, id have to say mattsons singing is closer. especsially since i heard jk do a "comes a time" at CMAC and it was horrible....he ruined that song.


Who's your choice? Name some names of guitarists who realistically would fit in with Furthur's music and schedule.
John K. has played very well every time I have seen the band. No complaints here.....I'm just thankful these guys are still touring well past retirement age!


just like i said before i think jeff mattson should be there instead. and I am also thankful that they are still touring i still go to as many shows as possible BUT i think mattson would be a much better fit.
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby Grateful Dad » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:04 am

The Stag wrote:
Grateful Dad wrote:
The Stag wrote:I dont understand why jk's guitar dosent sound better. whenever I go to see dso mattsons guitar sounds almost exact to the era show they are playing, but whenever I see furthur jk has the same cheesy sounding guitar and its mostly anoying. Also the way mattson sings is exellent, I personally never got the chance to see Jerry live, but, id have to say mattsons singing is closer. especsially since i heard jk do a "comes a time" at CMAC and it was horrible....he ruined that song.


Who's your choice? Name some names of guitarists who realistically would fit in with Furthur's music and schedule.
John K. has played very well every time I have seen the band. No complaints here.....I'm just thankful these guys are still touring well past retirement age!


just like i said before i think jeff mattson should be there instead. and I am also thankful that they are still touring i still go to as many shows as possible BUT i think mattson would be a much better fit.


Never seen DSO, but now I am going to try to go next time they are around, so I may change my opinion after seeing Jeff Mattson. JK definitely has the JG influence but I can hear his own technique as well which is essential to move the band "further". Maybe there is a reason Bobby and Phil chose JK over Mattson?? :D

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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby mgbills » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:25 am

I will add this of JK, which I've said in other threads...

He is being given space to be JK within Furthur. What greater honor could be bestowed on any freakin' guitar player, who aspires to play in the Garcia style? He paid his dues heartily to the material. He brought joy in the process. The last time I saw The Dead play it was dour. One of the drummers was on his feet prodding Bobby to move out of a jam. Insulting. Uninspired. Warren was the high point of the nights, and I didn't like him at all in that role the year before. Bob hardly played.

I saw the Grateful Dead more than 100 times, beginning in 1981. There were some Cosmic Awesome Thrilling Life-changing and Exhaulted times. When I am honest, as has been stated by many before...in the latter years we forgave...and hoped for an evening of magic....maybe even a 3 song run. C'mon Boys...give us a Help>Slip>Frank with gusto!

When I saw a 3 night Furthur run in Eugene, OR last summer...Phil had perma-grin...Bob played almost all night for 3 nights instead of rig-fiddlin' (and played awesome).
..and John K. showed us Jerry...tipped his hat to Jerry...reminded us of why we love this music...and he participated in an experience which (to me) revivises & reinvents the music we all cherish.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of anything. That's what the internet has brought us (good or bad.) My 30+ years of empirical experience leads me to these statements. JK has earned his place...and I bet if you asked the boys...they'd say the same thing.
...of course I won't get to see them until the end of Sept, and it all might've changed. :-)

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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby Lephty » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:56 am

I guess I should admit up front, in the interest of full disclosure, that JK is a longtime friend of mine. But I do think Matteson is a GREAT player, and I have really enjoyed the few DSO shows I've seen since he's been in the band, in addition to having seen him play some mind-blowing solos with the Tricksters too. But I also think JK is uber-talented and absolutely has his own voice (on the guitar, that is) beyond "Jerry-style", and that voice has started to come out more and more, the longer he plays Furthur and finds his comfort zone. I think most importantly to Bob & Phil, he's also a quality human being and a true lover of the music, as mgbills mentions.

Also, as a guitar player, if you want the music to truly sound like the Grateful Dead, you have to emulate Jerry's sound somewhat. Otherwise you get Jimmy Herring, Warren Haynes, or Scofield--all great players without a doubt, but to me the sound loses some of its authenticity with those guys, and with JK it sounds like the real deal.

Whatever anyone thinks about who happens to be playing guitar w/ Bob & Phil (or Billy or Mickey), bless those old men's hearts for continuing to do this--keeping the music going for the long-time fans, and even giving the younger generation a taste of the real thing.
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby wolftigerrosebud » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:11 am

since we're talking so much about furthur, here's a popular description from i think the phish forum.

"'Furthur is Boring and an Evolutionary Step'

Backwards.

You people can justify the fluff any way you want but the truth is that whenever the GD lost a member in the past they took an evolutionary step. When Pigpen left and subsequently died they kept elements of the past but became different. The same happened when Keith & Donna left and when Brent died. I felt that the original members successfully did that again after Jerry when they formed The Otherones in '98 by adding a sax (Dave Ellis) and Bruce Hornsby as a leader. There was even an evolutionary step taken when they toured with Warren Haynes (Not a favorite of mine), but he brought his own thing to the table. The problem with Fake Jerry is that he brings nothing new to the table. I'm not saying that there isn't some good music being made; I'm simply saying that its boring, repetitive, and is nothing but nostalgia. I want to love it as a die hard deadhead but I'd rather hang out with my friends at home and listen to the Grateful Dead."
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Postby tcsned » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:21 am

I've seen both Mattson and JK live and like them both. They're both way better than me. Both seem like cool guys. Both would probably to a good job with Furthur. I have only seen Mattson with Donna G. And have seen JK with DSO and Furthur. Mattson, at the shows I saw was very early 70s and I've seen JK do more of a range of stuff (though to Mattson's defense, it was probably playing to the gig he was doing). JK has also started adding more of himself into what he's doing w/Further which is nice to see.

I don't think it's a competition, I'm sure these two don't think so. There's several guys on this forum who would do nicely in either gig too. I'm just glad to see this music continuing now 17 years after Jerry's death. There's folks on this forum who weren't even born before Jerry's passing much less ever got to see him play but they are out there playing this stuff and doing it really well. I've been hacking my way through Dead tunes on stage for almost 30 years now - the funnest hobby I could ever imagine. I've played other stuff and still do but nothing is more fun to play for me than Dead music I'm sure most here will say the same. Relax and enjoy it while it is here because tomorrow is guaranteed to no one.
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