TPC1 10% OFF MONTH OF MAY SALE ~ RUKIND MEMBERS ONLY!!!

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Re: TPC1 10% OFF MONTH OF MAY SALE ~ RUKIND MEMBERS ONLY!!!

Postby Pete B. » Wed May 26, 2010 12:28 pm

KCJones wrote:
Very interested in a pedal. I rotate between 2-4 guitars a night this would make taming my q-tron easy and open up some tone options.


This is laymens logic here, so don't beat me up too bad .... But, Doesn't the pedal defeat the whole purpose of having a onboard buffer ... to compensate for that initial cable run and its quality/character, perhaps the longest and most important in your chain? At the very least I would suspect that your not going to regain any tone loss that was lost from the initial instrument cable. And in fact, a buffer down the chain may simply amplify any tonal degration resulting befor it in the chain. I haven't seen any discussion or manufacturer notes on this matter. Anyone with first hand experience?


fwiw, I don't hear any difference between plugging the outboard buffer pedal directly into my guitar (using one of those double ended 1/4" effects jacks), [making it like 6 inches or so from the pickups], and having it on a 9ft long GeorgeL cable.

The OBEL-pedal makes it easy to use the buffer/effects-loop with any instrument.
I use a volume pedal so the signal path is the same circuit "electronically"...
Pickups > selector-switch > with a typical electric guitar there's a pre-existing Volume control on the guitar, in this case set to "wide open" (effectively out of the circuit) > Tone control > 9ft GeorgeL cable to the OBEL-Pedal (instead of the 6inches or so if you have it onboard) > 25K Volume Pedal (instead of using the volume control on your guitar).

I place the OBEL-pedal right next to my MuTronIII and MuTron Octave Divider, and they are linked with three, 1ft long, GeorgeL cables.
So running the buffer onboard you have 6in from your tone control to the onboard buffer, but 20+ft(?) of send/return TRS cable (why the "Onboard" buffer was needed).
I have 9ft from tone control to buffer (inaudible difference as far as I can tell), and 3 feet of cable in my effects loop.
Maybe I'm missing something???
It's a super convenient plug and play solution for guys who want/need that option. I run both my Pedal Steel and Guitar thru this rig with an A/B box on gigs.
I'm sure I'll own a Guitar with a built in OBEL some day, but for now I can plug any instrument into the OBEL-Pedal.
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Re: TPC1 10% OFF MONTH OF MAY SALE ~ RUKIND MEMBERS ONLY!!!

Postby KCJones » Wed May 26, 2010 1:11 pm

Pete B. wrote:fwiw, I don't hear any difference between plugging the outboard buffer pedal directly into my guitar (using one of those double ended 1/4" effects jacks), [making it like 6 inches or so from the pickups], and having it on a 9ft long GeorgeL cable.


OK, so in your case anyway, if you didn't have any pedals, and you were going directly to your amp from your guitar with your 9' cable, having an onboard buffer would NOT enhance/preserve anything tone-wise. So the buffer doesn't seem to be worth it in those cases where one is going direct to the amp.

BTW, you never did say what the differences were when your not using the floor buffer at all.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate that.
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Re: TPC1 10% OFF MONTH OF MAY SALE ~ RUKIND MEMBERS ONLY!!!

Postby raisingfreen » Mon May 31, 2010 7:38 pm

This brings up a great question: Does the TPC1 make any tonal difference when running direct to an amp? or Does it only help if you are running through pedals and then into an amp?

I run direct to my amp a lot and swear I can hear a more Jerry chime using the onboard buffer (TPC1). Am I crazy? Was the tone there before and it is just a placebo effect? His website mentions that even short cable runs can benefit from the onboard TPC1.
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Re: TPC1 10% OFF MONTH OF MAY SALE ~ RUKIND MEMBERS ONLY!!!

Postby waldo041 » Mon May 31, 2010 8:38 pm

the onboard preamp buffer was being used to eliminate cable capaitance/resistance before jerry even ran an OBEL. however, he used the transistor based wickersham blaster to accomplish this.

he also spent alot of time going direct guitar to amp.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: TPC1 10% OFF MONTH OF MAY SALE ~ RUKIND MEMBERS ONLY!!!

Postby waldo041 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:13 am

a big THANK YOU for those that got in on the sale! but alas it is now june so the sale has expired.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: TPC1 10% OFF MONTH OF MAY SALE ~ RUKIND MEMBERS ONLY!!!

Postby Pete B. » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:24 am

KCJones wrote:
Pete B. wrote:fwiw, I don't hear any difference between plugging the outboard buffer pedal directly into my guitar (using one of those double ended 1/4" effects jacks), [making it like 6 inches or so from the pickups], and having it on a 9ft long GeorgeL cable.


OK, so in your case anyway, if you didn't have any pedals, and you were going directly to your amp from your guitar with your 9' cable, having an onboard buffer would NOT enhance/preserve anything tone-wise. So the buffer doesn't seem to be worth it in those cases where one is going direct to the amp.

BTW, you never did say what the differences were when your not using the floor buffer at all.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate that.


My understanding is that the "guitar directly to amp with shortest cord possible" tone, is what the unity gain buffer makes possible when using longer cords. So yeah, as you say, no need for or benefit from a buffer, onboard or otherwise, if you are going directly to amp with shortest cord possible.
In my case the buffer pedal puts my MuIII and Mu-Octave pedals in or out-of the signal path, and to my ear the MuIII likes that signal better than just being in-line.
Going directly to the amp with a short cord, or putting the buffer in line with two short cords, makes no difference in tone at all (to my ear).
Which is how it should be, no?

raisingfreen wrote:This brings up a great question: Does the TPC1 make any tonal difference when running direct to an amp? or Does it only help if you are running through pedals and then into an amp?

I run direct to my amp a lot and swear I can hear a more Jerry chime using the onboard buffer (TPC1). Am I crazy? Was the tone there before and it is just a placebo effect? His website mentions that even short cable runs can benefit from the onboard TPC1.

If your cord changes your tone, then the buffer would eliminate that. I have to string together at least 40-60ft of cord (using those radio shack dual-female 1/4" connecters) before I start to hear any cord based signal loss. Then add the buffer and check out the tone change.
IMHO, Everyone should try that to see how much cord length before tone change ocuurs.
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