Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Sell and buy at your own risk...

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby Pete B. » Thu May 10, 2012 7:26 am

fwiw, when I got the Haz unit, it was in a multi item buy/sell/trade deal with a guy from Seattle.
This was around 2004, before I got back into playing guitar (I was mainly only playing Pedal Steel from about '95 to '05))
I did think it was an original, until Tigerstrat pointed out to me that it was not. at our yearly Jerry day gig.
It was valued at $185 in buy/sell/trade dollars.
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby Jon S. » Thu May 10, 2012 8:08 am

FWIW, to my knowledge, I've never heard a HAZ labs Mutron at all and, recordings and live shows aside, have never personally played a real Mutron. My "Mutron" is below (Line 6 M13 model). However, I'd contribute this to the discussion based in part on a book I just finished reading, written by a behavioral economist, entitled Predictably Irrational. And that is that we all literally - not figuratively, LITERALLY - experience reality differently as result of predictable yet irrational human responses to product information, advertising, and related expectations.

For example, if, upon listening to a floor effect unit, we are told in advance that it does not use the same circuit as the original and may be misleadingly designed, we will literally hear it to be worse sounding than if we were told beforehand, even if inaccurately, that it is a true clone.

For this reason and based on much similar reading and experiences in my life, I try very hard, myself, when listening to any piece of gear, to put aside all prejudices and expectations and listen as objectively as I can. When I've done this with gear, even though not in true double-blind experimental designs, I've often had to admit such things as there may be little if no objective tone improvement between a $4K boutique custom shop Tele and a $500 import.

And this is not the least bit unusual of a finding. As the author of Predictably Irrational demonstrates empirically, indeed, it is the norm, be it for chocolate, aspirin, wine (all 3 of which featured in the author's experiments) or gear.

Image
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
User avatar
Jon S.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1474
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Thu May 10, 2012 8:20 am

Maybe one of the members who has both can do a comparison vid ?
Same guitar and rig .... with the two diff pedals
:D
Does anyone have a example of the Haz in action with their band ?
A shakedown St I could check out ?
:D
User avatar
Tennessee Jedi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4225
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:29 am
Location: Bucks Co.Pa

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby strumminsix » Thu May 10, 2012 8:26 am

Tennessee Jedi wrote:Maybe one of the members who has both can do a comparison vid ?
Same guitar and rig .... with the two diff pedals
:D
Does anyone have a example of the Haz in action with their band ?
A shakedown St I could check out ?
:D

Image
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6670
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby Pete B. » Thu May 10, 2012 9:11 am

The guy as Dead-On about the whole secret to playing any Envelope Filter...
It's absolutley "All In the Hands".

... and I just came up with another Band Name!...
"The Dead On"
:lol: :cool: :hail: :wink: :drink:
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby oconnors_35 » Thu May 10, 2012 9:20 am

I have the HAZ Mutron and I like it, never had a Q-Tron or original Mu so I can't speak on that.
Have to say one good thing about HAZ, my 3yr old srewed up my mutron one day twirling knobs and pressing buttons while I was playing and
something fried. I emailed HAZ and even though the pedal was 10+ years old they fixed it, all I had to do was ship it to them in NJ and pay 20 bucks for
the return shipping, they were quick about it too, shipped it back after a few days and it's been fine ever since.

SeanO
oconnors_35
Wavy Gravy
Wavy Gravy
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:35 am
Location: Northborough, MA

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Thu May 10, 2012 9:23 am

Pete B. wrote:The guy as Dead-On about the whole secret to playing any Envelope Filter...
It's absolutley "All In the Hands".

... and I just came up with another Band Name!...
"The Dead On"
:lol: :cool: :hail: :wink: :drink:

http://www.deadonlive.com/index.html
:-)
Pete - Was that a Haz you used on your Estimated Bridge vid ?
User avatar
Tennessee Jedi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4225
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:29 am
Location: Bucks Co.Pa

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby eric » Thu May 10, 2012 9:36 am

A weebit off topic , sorry guys but..

Jon , that is so very true. I bartended my way through college , at a pretty swanky restaurant. When customers couldn't decide if they wanted our "house" wine (@ $7.50/gl) or one of the better glasses of wine @ 16.50 a glass, I would pour both , purposely not tell them which is which... The vast majority of the time they would actually pick the cheaper wine thinking it was the high end one. (IMO the reason being cheaper wines are less "complex" and more "drinkable".. Also , I absolutely have stressed this to many, u really don't need to know anything a particular wine. Whatever you tell the people about the Qualities and characteristics ( besides the basics in varietals) , is what they will find in it, This is key !! After many years of this, I've come to the realization that that people who spend hundreds of dollars on bottles of wine are just plain idiots, appealing to the logical fallacy of snob appeal.

Also , a buddy of mine got a new Harley this week.. I look at it and see a motorcycle. But he showed me all the "mods and upgrades" , but unless he pointed them , I would have never known. The same holds for guitar. People just hear a guitar. It isn't untill you become a tone junkie that you begin to actually hear the differences in tone . But 99% of the non gtr playing people out there, All they hear is guitar.

To come full circle , I really try to objectively test every new piece of gear and put aside all preconditions and decide whether or not I , me , myself , like it. It is for this reason that I scaped my sweet MIJ "black label" Boss OC-2 as well as my MXR DIST+ RI.. Even though "it's what jer used" , I really didn't care for either . Also , after many not so glowing reviews about the Pigtronix Philosophers Tone, I still went ahead and scored a super cheap one, but I ended up loving the thing . I think it all boils down to being true to your own likes.. 2c
eric
710 ashbury
710 ashbury
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:00 am
Location: CT / RI

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby Pete B. » Thu May 10, 2012 9:46 am

Tennessee Jedi wrote:
Pete B. wrote:The guy as Dead-On about the whole secret to playing any Envelope Filter...
It's absolutley "All In the Hands".

... and I just came up with another Band Name!...
"The Dead On"
:lol: :cool: :hail: :wink: :drink:

http://www.deadonlive.com/index.html
:-)
Pete - Was that a Haz you used on your Estimated Bridge vid ?


No, That was the Emma Discombobulator, iirc.
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby Pete B. » Thu May 10, 2012 9:52 am

eric wrote:A weebit off topic , sorry guys but..

Jon , that is so very true. I bartended my way through college , at a pretty swanky restaurant. When customers couldn't decide if they wanted our "house" wine (@ $7.50/gl) or one of the better glasses of wine @ 16.50 a glass, I would pour both , purposely not tell them which is which... The vast majority of the time they would actually pick the cheaper wine thinking it was the high end one. (IMO the reason being cheaper wines are less "complex" and more "drinkable".. Also , I absolutely have stressed this to many, u really don't need to know anything a particular wine. Whatever you tell the people about the Qualities and characteristics ( besides the basics in varietals) , is what they will find in it, This is key !! After many years of this, I've come to the realization that that people who spend hundreds of dollars on bottles of wine are just plain idiots, appealing to the logical fallacy of snob appeal.

Also , a buddy of mine got a new Harley this week.. I look at it and see a motorcycle. But he showed me all the "mods and upgrades" , but unless he pointed them , I would have never known. The same holds for guitar. People just hear a guitar. It isn't untill you become a tone junkie that you begin to actually hear the differences in tone . But 99% of the non gtr playing people out there, All they hear is guitar.

To come full circle , I really try to objectively test every new piece of gear and put aside all preconditions and decide whether or not I , me , myself , like it. It is for this reason that I scaped my sweet MIJ "black label" Boss OC-2 as well as my MXR DIST+ RI.. Even though "it's what jer used" , I really didn't care for either . Also , after many not so glowing reviews about the Pigtronix Philosophers Tone, I still went ahead and scored a super cheap one, but I ended up loving the thing . I think it all boils down to being true to your own likes.. 2c


I took back the vintage script MXR D+ I picked up a coupla weeks ago. It's what Jer used, but I'm not that into that heavey of a distortion i guess.
I picked up a vintage MXR Analog Deley like Jer used, and it sounds very cool. I am keeping it. But it is limited compared to todays pedals. I'm told the manual says it has up to 500ms of delay. It sounds like about 300ms max to my ear, and the longer the delay, the darker(less treble) the repeats. It was designed this way because as you make the delay longer the unit becomes noisier due to the prossesing ability of the circuit. At least that's what I read on the innerweb.
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby Yankee Tim » Thu May 10, 2012 10:50 am

I did not make this thread to pick a fight with you or anyone else. I made my first post after consideration of a lot of what I read hear rearching my projects, like building a HT 2x12 copy, or making a purchase like the III+ (or I can call it the "Puke-tron" is it makes anyone happy :lol: ), finding out where I can get my my vintage Mu fixed or for just gleening tabs. I asked why the "hate" when there is a lot of negative stuff about the HAZ unit on the web. I do note Waldo's opinions and they help broaden my understanding. To be honest, I had to wade thru a lot of questionable information and did a fair deal of webmining to learn what I could about the entire Musictronics melodrama. Guild, ARP, HAZ, yada yada. A freaking book could be written. To that part, I expressed my view of it. What matters to me was in end took the plunge and bought this II+ I have now expecting it to be, yet again, not what I wanted. Part of me feared the worse , and that the webpinions would be right and hat it would totally suck and be nothing like the sound. Instead, I'm really happy with it and how it plays thru my set-up. I'm glad I listened to some of the posts who said they were happy with it. It's still the best sounding non-Mutron to date I have owned. Dunno how it will sound when my new guitar arrives but I suspect it will sound good.

I note your comment, PlayingDead. I too have a Qtron, and am still very happy with it, and I would recommend one if someone wanted a Jerry-ish sounding pedal. But I'm just a hack who once used to play out. The sounds between the two for me are very close, but I'd recommend a HAZ unit as much or more than the Qtron if that is available to someone (and the HAZ isn't stoopid priced). It sounds better for my pick up arrangement right now (Neck Dimarizo Super/Bridge EMG) but my new guitar that arrives tomorrow has 3 pickups and will be getting an OBEL&unity buff so we'll see in the end. I've never tried a Qtron+, so I can't comment there. But I will try one when I get around to actually buying music equipment in a real store. FWIW, none of the current 4 "other ones" I own, not even the HAZ or Qtron, looks exactly like my original on the inside from where I'm standing. I do know this. The DOD made a good door stop.

Waldo, I didn't mean to fight with you. We obviously have differing viewpoints on this. I never said the new Haz is the same. I said it sounds the same to me, and that it wasn't a POS (like the DODoorstop). Saying that the inventor of a foot pedal Jerry happened use is "bitter" is NOT saying anything negative about Jerry. Jerry had nothing to do with that pedal other than help make it famous. I don't like a damn thing about Ann Coulter and I think everthing she says is pure crap, but I completely believe her when she says she misses Jerry immensely. No one has a corner on that market nor should we throw that stone at each other and say who does or doesn't miss him, brother. I might not agree with you on this particular issue (or on whether it should be called Blue Widow or Berry White), but I don't doubt your appreciation of Jerry by any means.

Peace, Tim
Yankee Tim
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 10:50 am

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby zoooombiex » Thu May 10, 2012 4:32 pm

I don't think Waldo had an issue about which was better or worse, it was the comments about the nature of the circuits that he addressed.
User avatar
zoooombiex
Wavy Gravy
Wavy Gravy
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:22 pm

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby JonnyBoy » Thu May 10, 2012 7:11 pm

God I just HATE HAZ Labs. :smile:

No i don't. I think if you get good tone out of a pedal then go for it. Who cares what the other kids think. I have disliked some boutique pedals, and LOVED some cheap Chinese knockoffs. If you love it that's all that counts! No need to feel insecure about that. I think the thing we do here, is steer people down a path we know works and not get fooled by the marketing BS, and there is some of that here. The Qtron just sounds damn close, closer than the HAZ according to those that have tried. I don't think I ever read it was an awful pedal though.
http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
User avatar
JonnyBoy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 am
Location: the south swamps

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby Yankee Tim » Wed May 16, 2012 5:58 am

UPDATE:

Okay, my new geetar arrived. I feel like a toddler again. Its a totally different everything now. Neither of the Peak or Depth (peak/gain) settings on the HAZ or Qtron are anywhere remotely near where I set them with my Ibanez. Funny, I didn't think it would be that dramatic between these guitars. But it is. I'm use to 2 pickups, 2 volumes, 1 tone. With that set up, I've been able to hit what I thought was a awesome sound. Now I'm working thru a 3 pickup Garchematic arrangement (sans buffer/OBEL) and I'm like a kid in a candy shop with all the switch flicking and knob turning, but each and every thing I'm doing is rather dramatically impacting the sound thru either of the filters and I haven't dialed in my new guitar anywhere near like I can with my old one (nor as easily). And I'm swapping between the Q and III+ like Heath Ledger and the Olsen twins after a night of moly (yeah, I went there) and each time I'm like "Naw, this one is better". Go figure.

So, I guess I can state the obvious that the filter itself is an important part, but just a part, of seeking a tone your happy with. With that, I've got to get back to experimenting. :smile:

Tim
Yankee Tim
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 10:50 am

Re: Why all the HAZ Labs Mutron III+ hating?

Postby TI4-1009 » Tue May 22, 2012 10:31 am

Garage Sale???
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

PreviousNext

Return to Garage Sale

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest