List of GD song Keys & Scales

Musical Theory Abound!!!

Postby waldo041 » Mon May 22, 2006 2:16 pm

shakedown_04092 wrote:
waldo041 wrote: Yes, call and response is usually in the same key and Morning Dew just happens to be 2 key's like


So hwat 2 keys is Morning Dew in? G & C?


correct.

the D C G chord's are in the key of G, and the F C Em is in the key of C.


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Postby tigerstrat » Tue May 23, 2006 1:05 am

shakedown_04092 wrote:
tigerstrat wrote:
tigerstrat wrote:
waldo041 wrote:let me jut say that this will eventually be the most read thread here. kudos! i just have some clearing up in my head to do for myself and maybe others.

SONG NAME: The Other One
KEY OF: Em
RECOMENDED SCALES: Dorian

this one i believe should be in the key of E the dorian scale invokes the minor tonality, but is this E dorian or the 2nd of E - F# dorian



I believe the mode is B Dorian (same notes as E Myxolydian)


d'oh, how disoriented was I when I posted that...and no editing or deleting, ouch. Looking at what I would actually typically play on TOO (E F# G A B C# D), I realize that's E Dorian! Duh, and carry on as if I weren't here.



Just to be clear here, TOO is in what key & mode? I'm confused....if the mode is B Dorian,
(which it's not, that had been a mistaken post, which I tried to communicate, in lieu of being able to simply delete the misstatement
shakedown_04092 wrote:then that implies the Key of A.

If it's E Dorian, then that implies the Key of D. So which is it?


B aeolian? which is just another mode of E dorian or D major.
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Postby shakedown_04092 » Tue May 23, 2006 7:56 am

tigerstrat wrote: B aeolian? which is just another mode of E dorian or D major.


Right...uhh, I guess. So the solo I should be playing is B aeolian? Which means it's in the Key of D. I'm gonna ride this until someone tells me different. Thanks Tigerstrat.
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Postby jahozer » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:38 pm

waldo041 wrote:
jahozer wrote:Oh and by the way,
Scarlet is definately in E. B mixolydian, but that is still the key of E.
peas


How do explain away the lick that Jerry ends on that is definately in B Mixolyidan and the whole song ends on the tonic = B?

I mean Scarlet or even at the end of Fire, always resovles to that B. It's gotta be in B.


if you say so, but i am going with jahozer

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Ahh, wise man Waldo!!!
Look at the chords for Scarlet. E B A (except for the bridge) E B A mean E E E E E E E E. And the resolve is really the E for the first part of the "As I was walking" part. Think of the riff from the B at the end of the phrase. It so wants to go back to that E and start the next line. Thats why it sounds so powerful. Think too of the transition jam. Its all E, baby. Actually B mixo. But hey, playing with the tension and resolution is what makes or breaks the dead with so many ears. I love all the tension they add, and does not alway resolve. Thats also why people tend to strongly hate the dead, too. All that tension makes some ears feel uneasy. Just like why a lot of people just absolutely hate jazz.
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Postby qiuniu » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:32 pm

Okay, so I've been playing for 17 years but ONLY learning how to solo for less than a year.

If it's in E then the 5th of E is B, that's why he's using B mixo?

That's where the tension is coming from, playing the 5th and not resolving to the tonic?
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Postby nedcat » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:53 pm

I am very un-schooled guitarist and been playing steady since 1979. I wish I knew what all the terms for scales are....and exactly how to execute each scale perfecty. I guess instead of learning all the terms for scales?....I was kinda busy learning Bass, Drums and Keyboards :cool:
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Postby jahozer » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:52 pm

qiuniu wrote:Okay, so I've been playing for 17 years but ONLY learning how to solo for less than a year.

If it's in E then the 5th of E is B, that's why he's using B mixo?

That's where the tension is coming from, playing the 5th and not resolving to the tonic?

Yes and yes!

Knowing your modes allows you to "play through the chords" without thinking too too much about it. Especially over a two chord vamp. Like in Fire, Your runs are kinda set up to hit the A when you need to if you start on that B, instead of starting on E.
Now dont really over think it, (let the metal heads do that!) and frankly did not always understand modes myself. Once I got a grasp of them they helped my phrasing immeasurably.

It really is as Miles Davis puts it, "Learn it to forget it". In other words, spend the time to get this stuff down to where its automatic and you are not thinking about it.. I mean when I am playing, I really dont think, "oh I will switch to aeolian now" or what ever. I just kinda blend it all together in a large major scale, but I will run through the patterns (modes) just because I know them as part of that scale. Now setting up the solo, I think which mode I want to give me a certain feel and with the dead stuff, its usually mixolydian.

Its important to work out the minor and major modes so you can add chordal ideas and run all the way up the fret board. Its really only a few patterns and it will pay off in spades learning them.

Also Knowing your modes and patterns allows you to really expand your chord voicings because really whats a chord but stacks of scalar notes, right? You can do all the little bobby licks off of the cool chord voicings you create or those nice woody Jerry runs off your open chords.

It also helps for you to add the 'wrong' notes when you know where to put them. ie I will also add non scale tones if appropriate (even if not) like blue notes and little chromatic runs to sound 'shreddy' or 'bluesy'.

As for the tension- In Fire in particular, yes thats what gives it that moving kinda tense quality.

Thinking writing and talking about this stuff gives me so much more of a cerebral experience with playing. Hopefully the more I think it out when I am goofing around on sites like this, the more I have to add to my arsenal, and hopefully without thinking too much and just playing! :cool:
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Eyes of the World

Postby beatHopper » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:25 am

The song part of Eyes is in E major (E Ionian).

The jam / guitar solo part of the song modulates based on the chord:

Over the Emaj7 play E Ionian.

Over the Bm play B Dorian (A major, second mode).

Over the A play A Ionian.


The difference being that the Bm chord contains a D (B D F#), and the Emaj7 contains a D# (E G# B D#).
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Postby BayAreaBB » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:04 pm

Any chance of updating a master list with all of these upates over the last 7 pages? Is there one created offline, say in an Excel file? :roll:
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Re: Eyes of the World

Postby shakedown_04092 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:32 am

beatHopper wrote:The song part of Eyes is in E major (E Ionian).

The jam / guitar solo part of the song modulates based on the chord:

Over the Emaj7 play E Ionian.

Over the Bm play B Dorian (A major, second mode).

Over the A play A Ionian.


The difference being that the Bm chord contains a D (B D F#), and the Emaj7 contains a D# (E G# B D#).



Speaking of Eyes, how does everyone play the "jam" part?

The reason I ask is because we often have this arguement (read: discussion) in our band on how it goes. Some say the jam is just Emaj7 & Bm, others say it's Emaj7, Bm, & A. I say it's Emaj7 & Bm until the jam itself ends, and to signal the end of the jam, you go to the A, which'll lead you right into the next verse.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Eyes of the World

Postby waldo041 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:39 am

Speaking of Eyes, how does everyone play the "jam" part?

The reason I ask is because we often have this arguement (read: discussion) in our band on how it goes. Some say the jam is just Emaj7 & Bm, others say it's Emaj7, Bm, & A. I say it's Emaj7 & Bm until the jam itself ends, and to signal the end of the jam, you go to the A, which'll lead you right into the next verse.

Any thoughts?


here is my take. they do both.

intro
verse 1
Emaj Bm - jam
verse 2
Emaj7 Bm A - jam
verse 3
intro /outro

good question!

peace,
waldo[/quote]
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Postby jahozer » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:33 pm

BayAreaBB wrote:Any chance of updating a master list with all of these upates over the last 7 pages? Is there one created offline, say in an Excel file? :roll:

As they say in the corporate hell that I work in:
Excellent idea. We'd like you to take ownership of that and spearhead the project. When do you think we could have that done by?
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Re: Eyes of the World

Postby tigerstrat » Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:57 am

waldo041 wrote:
shakedown_04092 wrote: Speaking of Eyes, how does everyone play the "jam" part?

The reason I ask is because we often have this arguement (read: discussion) in our band on how it goes. Some say the jam is just Emaj7 & Bm, others say it's Emaj7, Bm, & A. I say it's Emaj7 & Bm until the jam itself ends, and to signal the end of the jam, you go to the A, which'll lead you right into the next verse.

Any thoughts?


here is my take. they do both.

intro
verse 1
Emaj Bm - jam
verse 2
Emaj7 Bm A - jam
verse 3
intro /outro

good question!

peace,
waldo
[/quote]

I've never observed a structural difference between the two solo sections. I gotta go w/ Shake here: The A is subtly accented but mostly implicit, and only becomes emphasized by Jerry as a signal to the rest of the band (along with a visible step to the mic) that the dynamic needs to drop enough for him to sing the next verse.
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Excel Spreadsheet

Postby phpbb » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:05 am

One of the rukind users put together a spreadsheet of the information discussed in this thread. you can download it here:

http://www.rukind.org/html/Lessons/GD_keysandscales.xls
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Keys for 2 Songs

Postby Cosmic Jimmy » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:20 pm

what key is Mississippi half step in, and also beat it on down the line, if anyone has any idea let me know thanks guys
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