Question about scale formulas

Question about scale formulas

Postby BlobWeird » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:43 am

Okay i looked online at a list of scale formulas. Example: Phrygian R b2 b3 4 5 #5 b7. Now i thought i knew how to read it but when i put it into context with certain keys it doesnt make sense. If someone could just show me an example of say the notes for A Phrygian and how they correspond to the Root b2 b3 and so on Id be very appreciative. thanks in advance
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Re: Question about scale formulas

Postby waldo041 » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:36 pm

BlobWeird wrote:Okay i looked online at a list of scale formulas. Example: Phrygian R b2 b3 4 5 #5 b7. Now i thought i knew how to read it but when i put it into context with certain keys it doesnt make sense. If someone could just show me an example of say the notes for A Phrygian and how they correspond to the Root b2 b3 and so on Id be very appreciative. thanks in advance


here is some Old Think Tank info i have found really useful, compliments of Kenny;


Ionian 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
Dorian 1 - 2 - flat3rd - 4 - 5 - 6 - flat7th
Phyrgian 1 - flat2nd - flat3rd - 4 - 5 - flat6th - flat7th
Lydian 1 - 2 - 3 - sharp4th - 5 - 6 - 7
Mixolydian 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - flat7th
Aeolian 1 - 2 - flat3rd - 4 - 5 - flat6th - flat7th
Locrian 1 - flat2nd - flat3rd - 4 - flat5th - flat6th - flat7th

Ionian -
Lydian is Ionian with a sharp 4th
Mixolydian is Ionian with a flat 7th
C D E F G A B - C Ionian
C D E F# G A B - C Lydian
C D E F G A Bb -C Mixolydian

Aeolian -
Dorian is Aeolian with a sharp 6th.
Phyrgian is Aeolian with a flat 2nd
A B C D E F G - A Aeolian
A B C D E F# G - A Dorian
A Bb C D E F G - A Phrygian


The Five Patterns

Pattern #1

e------------------------------------------------3--5--------
b-------------------------------------3-5-6------------------
g--------------------------2-4-5-----------------------------
d-----------------2-3-5--------------------------------------
a---------2-3-5----------------------------------------------
e--3--5------------------------------------------------------

Pattern #2

e----------------------------------------------------5-7-8---
b------------------------------------------5--6--8-----------
g-------------------------------4--5--7----------------------
d------------------------5--7--------------------------------
a-------------5--7--8----------------------------------------
e--5--7--8---------------------------------------------------

Pattern #3

e----------------------------------------------------7-8-10--
b---------------------------------------------8--10----------
g-----------------------------------7--9--10-----------------
d-----------------------7--9--10-----------------------------
a-----------7--8--10-----------------------------------------
e-7--8--10---------------------------------------------------

Pattern #4

e---------------------------------------------------10-12-13-
b------------------------------------------10-12-13----------
g--------------------------------9-10-12---------------------
d--------------------9-10-12---------------------------------
a-----------10-12--------------------------------------------
e-10-12-13---------------------------------------------------

Pattern #5

e---------------------------------------------------12-13-15-
b-----------------------------------------12-13-15-----------
g---------------------------------12-14----------------------
d----------------------12-14-15------------------------------
a-----------12-14-15-----------------------------------------
e-12-13-15---------------------------------------------------

The Five Patterns Explained
This is just a Key For next chart
Ionian - ion
Dorian - dor
Phyrgian - phy
Lydian - lyd
Mixolydian - mix
Aeolian - aeo
Locrian - loc


Pattern #1
g------------------------------------------aeo-loc-ion------
d---------------------------phy-lyd-mix---------------------
a-----------loc-ion-dor-------------------------------------
e-mix-aeo---------------------------------------------------

Pattern #1 continued

e----------------mix-aeo------------------------------------
b-dor-phy-lyd-----------------------------------------------


Pattern #2
g-----------------------------------------loc-ion-dor-------
d-------------------------------mix-aeo---------------------
a----------------dor-phy-lyd--------------------------------
e-aeo-loc-ion-----------------------------------------------

Pattern #2 continued

b----------------aeo-loc-ion--------------------------------
e-phy-lyd-mix-----------------------------------------------


Pattern #3
g---------------------------------------------dor-phy-lyd---
d------------------------------aeo-loc-ion------------------
a---------------phy-lyd-mix---------------------------------
e-loc-ion-dor-----------------------------------------------

Pattern #3 continued

e------------loc-ion-dor------------------------------------
b-mix-aeo---------------------------------------------------


Pattern #4

g---------------------------------------phy-lyd-mix---------
d-------------------------loc-ion-dor-----------------------
a---------------mix-aeo-------------------------------------
e-dor-phy-lyd-----------------------------------------------

Pattern #4 continued

e-----------------dor-phy-lyd-------------------------------
b-aeo-loc-ion-----------------------------------------------



Pattern #5

g-------------------------------------------mix-aeo---------
d-----------------------------dor-phy-lyd-------------------
a--------------aeo-loc-ion----------------------------------
e-phy-lyd-mix-----------------------------------------------

Pattern #5 continued

e---------------phy-lyd-mix---------------------------------
b-loc-ion-dor-----------------------------------------------


hope it helps. :smile:


peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Postby sarraqum » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:06 pm

Here are some sites that make scales a bit simpler:

http://www.wholenote.com/

In the "Basics" section you'll find pretty much all the scales and their shapes.


http://www.jazzguitar.be/modi.html

This site goes into the theory of it all, definetly worth reading
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Postby BlobWeird » Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:40 pm

No im sayin like say the root is A on the 5th fret 6th string. Then for Phrygian what would be b2 and b3? Bb and Db?
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Postby waldo041 » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:04 pm

BlobWeird wrote:No im sayin like say the root is A on the 5th fret 6th string. Then for Phrygian what would be b2 and b3? Bb and Db?

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

waldo041 wrote:
Aeolian -
Dorian is Aeolian with a sharp 6th.
Phyrgian is Aeolian with a flat 2nd
A B C D E F G - A Aeolian
A B C D E F# G - A Dorian
A Bb C D E F G - A Phrygian


i will try and help you here.
the Minor Aeolian mode has a flat 3rd, flat 6th, flat 7th that is different from the Ionian mode. The Phyrigian mode adds a flat 2nd to this

Now you can look at it this 2 way's;

1)phyrygian is an Aeolian scale with a flat 2nd like stated above

or;

2)phyrygian is an Ionian scale with a flat 2nd, flat 3rd, flat 6th, and a flat 7th like stated below,


Ionian 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
Dorian 1 - 2 - flat3rd - 4 - 5 - 6 - flat7th
Phyrgian 1 - flat2nd - flat3rd - 4 - 5 - flat6th - flat7th
Lydian 1 - 2 - 3 - sharp4th - 5 - 6 - 7
Mixolydian 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - flat7th
Aeolian 1 - 2 - flat3rd - 4 - 5 - flat6th - flat7th
Locrian 1 - flat2nd - flat3rd - 4 - flat5th - flat6th - flat7th



long story short, your answer is Bb and C, they are the flat 2nd and flat 3rd from the A Ionian mode.

hope this helps. :cool:

peace,
waldo
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Postby BlobWeird » Thu May 18, 2006 4:48 pm

So let me get this straight. If i take the mixo formula which is 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 i would just take the ionian and flatten the 7th?
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Postby waldo041 » Thu May 18, 2006 5:27 pm

BlobWeird wrote:So let me get this straight. If i take the mixo formula which is 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 i would just take the ionian and flatten the 7th?


yep, so;

C Ionian is;

C D E F G A B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

&

C Mixolydian is;

C D E F G A Bb
1 2 3 4 5 6 7



peace,
waldo
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Postby tigerstrat » Thu May 18, 2006 5:31 pm

Red. Uh, I mean... yes
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