Chord Tones?

Chord Tones?

Postby Counterstriker » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:02 pm

I've been learning the CAGED system, I already knew all the inversions didn't know it was called CAGED though. But I've trying to work on my solo's lately, following the chord changes, and all that, but it just doesn't sound as melodic as jerry's solo's. Am I missing something?

I understand CAGED to a point, but all I really get from it is that they are basically inversions. But what can I do from that?

Thanks!
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby Billbbill » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:31 pm

If I'm not mistaken you're something like 16 right?

**All good things in all good time**

That being said, I feel internalizing intervals is huge. I've said on this board before, I'd like to play guitar like I whistle. Now I'm a pretty good whistler but the point is to translate intent, as with whistling, as fluently as possible from one's head/heart/whatever - to the guitar. "Intervals" is the difference between one note and another. Internalizing the difference from one note to another will allow you to construct runs with more conscious intent, rather than winging a run in a specific scale or mode without any specific direction. That being said, some pretty good riffs can be born of random runs as long as they're couched within a decent foundational knowledge of scales/modes.

Chord tones, as properties of chord construction have a more intrinsic resonance with the chord being played and as such when strung together from one chord to the next provide a more melodic flow. The "trick" is to intermingle scaleular/modal notes that are not chord tones within/among the chord tones, which may or may not be arpeggiated depending on the nature of the run and the emphasis on chord tones.

It should also be noted that this is all contingent to varying degree on the song. Songs like touch of grey, scarlet begonias and say run for the roses will rely on chord tones and arpeggios more than other songs.
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby Counterstriker » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:31 pm

Thanks BillBill! Yup, I'm 16! When I first started learning guitar at 9 I never new it was this complicated and I blew off everything my intructor was teaching me, but now I'm in a band and I need it! So I'm going back and learning the whole neck instead of just the shape of scales without knowing the notes. but now that im actually taking the time to learn the notes it's starting to click! But I really want to be able to create a beautiful guitar solo one day, like jerry did all the time :lol: But i'm really gonna study on this!

thanks alot!
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby jefkahn » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:50 pm

Billbbill wrote:Internalizing the difference from one note to another will allow you to construct runs with more conscious intent, rather than winging a run in a specific scale or mode without any specific direction.


I totally agree! When I jam I play the melody that is emerging in my head in real time. I don't noodle along scales, and in fact I feel pretty deficient in that I don't know scales that well. What I do know is what fret/string combination on the guitar is going to play the note that I feel needs to be next in a solo, and I string them together that way. Of course, the notes that I play are likely to be within a scale that works for a song, but I construe it more as playing intervals than playing a scale.

And of course I never, ever play the wrong note. :lol:

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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby dleonard » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:27 am

I'm with you too dude...

I've gotten alot out of the CAGED method over the past few years. Recently, I've been thinking I'm in sort of a slump(unfortunate too with a good amount of gigs coming up). It seems as though my solo's are sometimes just arpeggios instead of something melodic. I think alot of it has to do with just thousands more hours of playing guitar, but I also think it may be a good idea to learn some solos note for note, which I've just recently started doing again. I learned a bunch of Jerry solos note for note a couple years ago, so now im gonna do it with Trey and try and get some of his style incorporated. Anyone have any other ideas?
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:23 am

Counterstriker wrote:I've been learning the CAGED system, I already knew all the inversions didn't know it was called CAGED though. But I've trying to work on my solo's lately, following the chord changes, and all that, but it just doesn't sound as melodic as jerry's solo's. Am I missing something?

I understand CAGED to a point, but all I really get from it is that they are basically inversions. But what can I do from that?

Thanks!

Don't forget Jerry just didn't play straight scales or inversions ... he knew how to spice stuff up with chromatic s , pull offs , slurs ,pre bends , etc .....
And Jerry wasnt Jerry overnight ... may years of honing his skills.
Don't worry you will get there you are already good at 16 !
Just keep playing and doing what you are doing.
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby Pete B. » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:40 am

Here's a vid where I solo through the CAGED positions in the Key of E (major scale - ionian) from 12th fret high E string to the open low E string (I am playing a 7-string in this vid so I acually go to the open low B-string). Then I work my way back up to the high E at the 12th.
I basically play thru each of the E-chord positions between open and 12th fret (You can play duplicate scales on frets 12-24).
This is just one idea for getting used to soloing over the CAGED chord forms. Listen to Jerry G play over the same jam, which is basically the intro/outro EMaj7th jam for Eyes of the world. You might also jam along with GD videos to get a better feel of how Jer gets around on the Fretboard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR8f0Do9tAQ
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby Counterstriker » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:22 pm

Thanks guys! I was talking to my guitar teacher about the CAGED method, and he didn't know much about it, but once i explained it to him he told me in his day they were called Boxes. I pretty much have all the shapes of the scales down to all the inversion shapes. I applied the little I know the the show we had last night in some songs and the solos sound better but I'm missing alot, but I'm still learning it!

Are there any books that I can buy that further tells me about this kind of stuff?
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby dleonard » Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:30 am

There's a book called Chord-Tone Soloing that I thought was great.
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby Crazy 9.5 Fingers » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:42 am

Bill Edwards' Fretboard Logic is a very, very useful book in learning the CAGED system. There is DVD version as well that goes along with the book. Highly recommend it.
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby jjbankhead » Wed May 26, 2010 7:49 am

well i hope i am not breaking any rules by linking someone else's stuff here, but i really like this guys youtube lessons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwhjalRi ... Ro9w_VIeZc


he also has a website with some tabs and stuff that correlate with his videos.

www.jdarks.com

he really broke down soloing for me the best for me to understand. i am not saying i completely rip at soloing but this put me on the right path, getting away from simply playing through scales.
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby jackr » Wed May 26, 2010 10:00 am

Counterstriker wrote: When I first started learning guitar at 9 I never new it was this complicated


It is amazing the more I learn about the guitar the more I realize how little I know. It is overwhelming and it is just not about learning the guitar, it is about learning music. But the good thing is that it is not a race and we can learn one thing at a time.


Counterstriker wrote: So I'm going back and learning the whole neck instead of just the shape of scales without knowing the notes.


Learning the notes is very important. I have found that the majority of players that I jam with do not know the notes they are playing beyond the 3rd or 4th fret. They only scale and arpeggio patterns etc. Which is fine and you can sound great knowing just that but eventually a serious player will learn the notes. It is not easy learning the notes and there are many techniques ( we can discuss that later) but it really comes down practicing.

It would be interested to start a thread or a poll to see how many people know the notes of the fretboard.
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby Stevo123 » Wed May 26, 2010 10:06 am

Here's something I just caught on to last night that I think is gonna end up taking me a long way! Pick about 4 adjacent diatonic notes on the fretboard, maybe 5 (ex. do re me fa, or fa so la ti, etc). Start playing phrases using only these 4 notes. Never play the same thing the same way twice, unless you find something that sounded especially interesting. If so play it 5 or 6 times in a row. Then change again. Keep playing every permutation you can think of and keep doing longer phrases with more embellishments. But stick to only 4 notes. Eventually you're going to get really comfortable with those notes. Now change the notes, but instead of going to a different spot on the fretboard, start teasing back and forth with the chromatic notes in the sequence, just hinting different modes. Eventually settle on a different mode altogether, but still within that same span of notes, and keep coming up with more phrases. Never stop your fingers from moving, though, even if you play a "bad" phrase. Just fix it next time. Try that for a few hours and tell me you don't already have a better sense of melody.
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby Boondock Dave » Wed May 26, 2010 10:47 am

dleonard wrote:I'm with you too dude...

I've gotten alot out of the CAGED method over the past few years. Recently, I've been thinking I'm in sort of a slump(unfortunate too with a good amount of gigs coming up). It seems as though my solo's are sometimes just arpeggios instead of something melodic. <snip> ... Anyone have any other ideas?


This is the first thing that popped into my head. Use it if it applies. For the solo, make your guitar the lead singer. Have him stand out front with the spotlight on him, and make a strong statement. No mumbling around or trying to be cute, just state his business like Big Joe Turner on a hot Saturday night in 1954. Wail some.
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Re: Chord Tones?

Postby paulkogut » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:07 pm

Improvising a solo with strong, coherent melodic content is no simple thing. There are lots of devices (chord tones, arpeggios, approach notes, pentatonics, etc) that you can juggle to get you pointed in the right direction, but one thing I find a lot of folks overlook is this: How many melodies do you know when you're not improvising?
How easily can you pick out basic tunes like Happy Birthday, Jingle Bells, Yankee Doodle, etc.
Watch what happens when you give this a shot. Is it easier in some keys than others? Are you better in a CAGED position or up and down a couple of strings? A lot of Jerry's solos (Scarlet Begonias, Loser, etc) are (at least in part) restatements of the vocal melody.If you learn a lot of melodies, they're bound to bleed into your solos and make them more melodic, too.

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