Band Name and legal status....

Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby LazyLightnin » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:48 am

no, i haven't been overwhelmed by folks about the band name, but i have been getting overwhelmed just in general by alot of the heads that come see us. there are really only a few Dead bands around town. one is an established name - JimMiller band. he sounds good but is in nowehere near the form he was 15 years ago. another is "Into the Blue", a conglomarite of local musicians all in other original bands that do a Dead night every 6 months or so. The field is wide open out here, theres no band you can go see on a consisitent basis that does at least 90% dead tunes (we do some Waits and some Ween), so its perfect timimg for the torch to be passed. But yeah, when we go on break i have to spend the first 15 mintues of it shaking hands and listening to folks tell me stories about how many memories were brought back while we did our first set. When i put up flyers at our "hub" bar where we perform a few times a month, folks just take them off the walls and take them home. i have to go put more up, plus the bar gets calls from folks asking when my band is playing again - which they told me has never happened at this particular bar (dont be fooled , its a crappy bar but as far as bands in my situation, its the best place you can be in this county right outside of cuyahoga). someone recognized me in one of my classes here at college and they went on and on in front of everybody - i was so embarressed, everyone was looking at me and then folks wanted to talk, the teacher starts asking me questions about it - exactly what i didnt want to happen. now everytime i go to this class i have to run a gauntlet of q & a from folks that dont even know me or what the hell im doing for that matter, its silly. i love being put on the spot on stage but not off of it.

things moved so quickliy for us, we've kinda gone into a spin for a few weeks. we made calls to a lot of clubs and then out of nowhere we started getting calls back from bars and clubs all over NE ohio. we played as the current outfit for 2 shows and immediately landed 2 gigs at nelsons -granted one is on the noon timeslot but ya gotta start somewhere.we landed other gigs in clubs in alliance and ashland and generally all over. we were requested to play the saturday night at a large camping/music fest here in lorain county this summer. just too much to mention going on and ive never had to deal with all this stuff before. lots of these gigs are pending as we try to schedule ourselves around the others. we should be gigging every week in a few months and then when the summer comes...man i cant wait for the fun to begin.

You want a Dead band, seem very concerned with how 1 bar will view the name, don't seem to worry if fans confuse your band with another one.


did you not intend for this quote to read like this? i got confused a bit.

We gig as Dead Ahead. a google search turns up nothing. if i go 2 pages on google without seeing another band with the same name then im satisfied. If there were another Dead Ahead in ohio or in an adjacent state then i would look for a change, but as of now that hasnt happened. The whole point of the first post was that i wanted to know if anyone could at some time tell me "hey you cant use that name because pbs has the rights to that name and anything using that name that is Dead related would be subject to a forced switch".

now, the two fellas that i replaced in the band were pushing to use the name "Uncle Monkey" as we were doing almost the entire reckoning album at the time. I never liked the name, it sounds too "cute" for me. when i went to book a show i simply asked the owner what he thought would sound/look better. he told me he wouldnt even book me if i used that band name and that Dead Ahead was perfect. now i know it might sound as though the entire debacle rested on the whim of one bar owners preference but thats not really the case, he just confirmed my suspicions. the 2 fellows that wanted that cute sounding name would shout "UNCLE MONKEY" at the top of their lungs between songs.....i hated that. good guys, fun guys, not very good musicans/decision makers lol.

so something like uncle monkey is out of the question. Dead Ahead is perfect, i was just worried that someone would tell me i couldnt use it.

this is why i take my plight to you guys. you always give me an array of suggestions, some i like some i dont like, but thats the point -to get as many perspectives as possible. this is the best site/community for the insight im looking for. you guys never fail me lol
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby strumminsix » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:00 am

Thank you! Okay, let me think of a better reply for ya now!
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby phpbb » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:45 am

What would spinal tap do?
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby RiverRat » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:50 am

LazyLightnin wrote:We gig as Dead Ahead. a google search turns up nothing. if i go 2 pages on google without seeing another band with the same name then im satisfied. If there were another Dead Ahead in ohio or in an adjacent state then i would look for a change, but as of now that hasnt happened. The whole point of the first post was that i wanted to know if anyone could at some time tell me "hey you cant use that name because pbs has the rights to that name and anything using that name that is Dead related would be subject to a forced switch".


The Schwag LLC holds the rights to the word mark. You shouldn't use it as a band name since they hold that right, you will be forced to change it if they find out about you using it and should they decide to do so. First it might be a friendly message or call to ask you to stop using it. If that doesn't work, a Cease and Desist from their lawyer would follow... If that didn't get your attention, a friendly court injunction that would legal compel you to NOT use that name any more might. If you make it past all that, there might still be a civil suit in store. And they would win a judgment and get damages if they sought them. That's the worst case scenario should you decide to continue to use the name.

Best case scenario... you use it and fly under the radar for as long as you're at it and it all appears to work out.

I'm going to bet that it turn out somewhere in between. If they took the time to research and apply for the mark, you have to assume that they are prepared to defend the right to that mark. Especially given how the "Goods and Services" portion of their application for that mark reads.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=d ... r1gc5r.3.1

http://www.quizlaw.com/trademarks/what_ ... d_mark.php
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby jdsmodulus » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:52 pm

+1 that is what I meant I just didnt say all of that. Thanks for those links we should have a legal thread anyways.
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby LazyLightnin » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:53 pm

See, this is what i was afraid of in the first place. on one hand nobody around here has ever heard of "The Schwag Dead Ahead", nor do they ever come close to ohio for that matter. I have always been reserved to the fact that the name will need a change. i knew that somewhere somebody must have used it in the past or presently does. That band hasn't officially changed their name yet but i see that they will - and wow! they have some nice gigs -damn!

well im just gonna keep thinking of better ideas. it became the band name by default because we were all working on arrangements and not thinking creatively about the subject. We'll see what the summer has in store, if we do bigger better things then the band name will change sooner than later. i just cant see that other group being so concerned with what some punks in cleveland are doing in front of fifty local yokals a few times a month. they know where to find me if they wanna talk about it.

great informative links, thanks so much.

and oh yeah, i doubt that anyone will confuse us with that other group. no one from out west that knows those gentleman would ever mistake us for them. they actually have a fan base who are probably quite informed on where that band travels to. who would wanna be in a band called "The Schwag" anyway? i bet theres a dozen other garage/bar bands using that name as well.
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby Chuckles » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:23 pm

I hope that the above post is in jest. The Schwag's been around for almost 20 years and are very well-known in the community; nobody else is using their name... certainly not another Dead band. A lot of people here either know them, have played with them, built equipment for them or know folks who have. Two of their members play with Melvin Seals and JGB (Stu came from JGB to join the Schwag!). They've been around a looong time and deserve a modicum of respect.

People have answered your question and offered friendly helpful advice, trying to put it both gently and in stark legal terms why you should change the name and offering ideas on how to go about it, how to promote it, etc. If you were gonna just end up telling us all to piss off, why bother in the first place?
:?

Seriously, what the fuck? Would you be comfortable tiefing "Playing Dead" because they're local to the Boston area? You need a serious attitude adjustment; don't let your classroom fame go to your head.
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby jdsmodulus » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:57 pm

The Schwag ROCKS!!!! period.
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby jlg327 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:45 pm

Just to be clear on something that I saw in your original post:

It makes no difference if you call yourself "Dead Ahead" or "DeadAhead" or even "Dead-Ahead."

These are all equivalent in the eyes of the United States Patent and Trademark Office - so any version of them would be an infringement of The Schwag's mark (in fact, even a phonetic spelling would infringe, because it would sound the same to the audience member). You're honestly better off changing the band name now, while you're in the earliest stages of gaining popularity.

While doing a google search for your prospective band name is always a good start, you should absolutely search using the TESS system on the USPTO's website, as both RiverRat and I had mentioned earlier. Without getting into the intricacies of Trademark law, because The Schwag has registered the mark, they're seeking federal protection of it - and that means they're protecting it nationwide.

Seriously, I hate the adage, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And on a completely unrelated note, I have never listened to The Schwag, but if they've got such a good cast of characters as everyone's saying, maybe I should!

-Jim
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby LazyLightnin » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:03 pm

i just spent the better part of 2 hours writing a thoughtful reply only to crash to desktop after writing the last sentence.

abbreviated.

Dead Ahead is the short term name for the band until we get smart enough to figure out a new one. I have used Dead Ahead since before the July '09 trademark and can prove that by record. that doesn't mean that i can keep the name - hell i dont even want it! - but i can be immune to a lawsuit claiming monetary compensation.

no one disrespected "The Schwag". i thinks its a bad band name, hell i dont even like my bands name. or is it their band name? :lol: point being that you think i owe them something for being who they are which i do not. i have great respect for them, whoever they are and im sure that they would return the favor. after all they have no reason not to, i have not profited from their band name, which is not dead ahead as they have not employed it yet, i have not smeared them as no one here knows who they are as they dont know who i am. i have not made a single cent off of The Schwags reputation. and yes somewhere at sometime someone has had to use that moniker for a band name. there are so many cover bands out there that it just happens, you cant prevent it. its just too common a phrase, i have seen different cover bands with the same name before and in my own town at that.

you are out of line thinking that Ive told you to piss off. how convenient of you to stroll in here from the Clapton topic to drop in your 2 cents. I thank you for being part of the discussion. if you had read my posts thoroughly you would have seen that i have clearly thanked everybody for their insight. no one was ever told to "piss off". i never insinuated that either, although you're dying inside for me to do just that. so badly in fact that you've come in here and put words into my mouth that i never conveyed. ever. at all. in thought, text or speech. in fact you have labeled me which is a pretty crappy thing to do to someone you don't really know anything about. if you think that you're in such a position of authority to label another person as "ignorant" or to blatantly LIE and say that i've said something in which i did not then i'd like to know where your virtues stand as a human being. you're one of those guys that thinks they are part of some bigger than life GD hierarchy and you can go around telling folks off that you don't agree with because you think that you have the authority to do so. i don't care who you know, where you've been or who you name drop at parties. that's not disrespect , thats just how it is. you're no more just a guy on stage playing a couple of tunes and typing on this website than i am.

which is why i choose not to respond to your last few quotes. as i haven't the authority to label or point a finger at you sir, anymore than you have over me.

Seriously, what the fuck? Would you be comfortable tiefing "Playing Dead" because they're local to the Boston area?


see this is where you are led astray. of course i would be uncomfortable, that would be a blatant rip off. search playin dead and their site comes up. search dead ahead and ya get....nothing! because my band is the only band right now using that name. so therefore unless they can read my mind and call me up to say "hey thats my bands name" then i fail to see where i am at fault here. especially considering the fact that i keep mentioning that ive always been reserved to the fact that it is not a permanent band name.

uh oh - gf in driveway be back tomorrow.
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby jdsmodulus » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:18 pm

When you search the internet for Dead Ahead your not seeing the Schwag because its brand new. Oh but you will. I think in this case and I think I implied this before, you should just play and not worry about it. The Schwag, or whatever they want to call themselves or their new project have been around forever and are kind folks. Really just enjoy the music and your band. When you play bigger shows and festivals and get a nationwide following, Im sure you will know the name of your band. :peas:
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby Chuckles » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:13 pm

Dude, grow the fuck up.

I just call 'em like I see 'em. To my mind, you blatantly posted that you didn't give a shit if there was another band out there (one that's been on the scene for a looong time - a scene with which you seem to be hopelessly unfamiliar, by the way) that has registered the name; and that you'd consider changing your band's name in "due time". Well, numerous people have told you already that that time is now out of consideration - both legally and socially - for the band that took the time to register it, and for the good of your own band. IF I'm wrong, I invite folks to chime in right about now with suggestions that you need not change the name. (Hell, you yourself have said you know you need to.. so what's the issue?)

Nobody jumped down your throat; nobody thought you were anything but serious about exploring the ramifications of having a band with a name registered under the auspices of another band. Nobody did anything here except to explain to you that it isn't cool... for you (legally, as jlg clearly explained) or for the members of The Schwag who own it. In fact, you are the one who said the name was so insignificant that there were other bands in Clevand-land that used it. Which raises a couple of questions: first, why would you use a name already used by another band (or, bands, according to you) in your area? That is either symptomatic of laziness or utter disregard for others. Second, if you knew of these other local bands, why on earth would you want to pick such an obviously generic (for a Dead band) name? Are you a lazy fuck or just Lazy Lightning (name of my sailboat, btw)? I will stipulate, however, that Uncle Monkey is the worst name I've EVER heard! :lol:

Do you owe The Schwag? You bet your pimpled ass you do. They have been among the bands keeping the torch alive so that there's anyone interested in seeing the music played by a live band other than the originals anymore. Especially Stu, who has been playing with Melvin in JGB for 7 years (since you were a whelp). Do you even know who Melvin Seals is? If you answer "no", you should just kill yourself after admitting you are an ignorant asshole. EVERYONE here knows who Stu Allen and The Schwag are. YOU don't have a fucking clue, and that's on YOU.

As for any underlying agenda I have towards you, I suggest you go back and read the first post I made in this thread. I did nothing but offer a suggestion based on my experience for a course of action that might work for you guys. No judgement; no offense; no aggressiveness. You are so FUCKING welcome for that; next guy that asks, I'll be sure to NOT take the time to answer because I might get a totally self-absorbed, post-pubescent response like I did from you (to my and everyone else's posts). If you want to hang onto the Clapton thing, that's your baggage, not mine, chief.

You seem more eager for an internet dust-up than for a discussion of what may be helpful to you and your band or to the whole scene in general. I see nothing more than a self-absorbed know-nothing little fuck who can't cotton anyone's advice that doesn't jibe with their own agenda. Congratualtions: you just might have one thing in common with Jerry. :lol:

As to my feelings of fitting into some hierarchy, you couldn't be more right and more wrong at the same time. No, I certainly don't feel any "authority" to lecture people on what they should do. However, I'm also less inclined towards those people that give it the ol' "whatever" shrug and look the other way when people are trying to help them out. You asked for advice; people gave it; you promptly thanked them for it - yes - but then disregarded it. Like it or not kid, there are a lot of people here who know a hell of a lot more about stuff than you do- regardless of how well or not or how frequently or not they play the music. You seem to be a guy who wants to play the music but gives not a second shit about the story behind it. If not for the very types of people (The Schwag, for example) who have been at this for a long time and who bother to post on this site, you wound have neither the opportunity to really capitalize on the scene nor anyone to turn to for answers to your questions. So, stop being such a self-absorbed asshole and take suggestions for what they are worth. At least a few of us know what we are talking about, even if we are over 40-something.

Frankly, I hope you go ahead with the "Dead Ahead" thing and have great success with it for a while. Down the road, I hope you have built a great following of the brand and suddenly get hit with a cease and desist from the folks from The Schwag and lose everything you had built up to date. That would serve you well and offer a great lesson in arrogance and ignorance... and perhaps teach you the lesson that you don't know everything.

Grow the FUCK up.
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby RiverRat » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:29 am

http://www.deadaheadband.com/

versus

http://www.deadaheadband.net/

This will probably the 1st match on the fight card...

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong... The ones with the deepest pockets will win!
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby LazyLightnin » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:13 am

I dont owe anything to anybody. as i have mentioned i do respect those people.

it is clearly you who wishes to engage me in argument, not i. everything ive said you have taken out of context and spun it at such an angle that would make your plight seem correct in contrast to mine. but you are still wrong and still misguided.

also you are still name calling, accusing, berating, belittling , finger pointing, taking words out of context and putting words and thoughts and feelings that i am not expressing and characterizing them to be my own, which they are not. i do know adults that do act in such ways. Plato would have considered them tyrants. all of your name calling reaffirms what some that are learned already understand. your responses are toned with negativity and if i respond with such negativity then i have lost all sense of what i believe to be just and right. it is just and right for you to hold your opinions and express them. i would not be just and right to my own being if i were to join you in your negativity as negativity breeds stress and emotions that will never do good for me , only bad. to thine own self be true.

you sir are a name dropper, you claim to hold some position because of who you converse or associate with. in your minds eye you hold some sort of title because you think of yourself as more important than some others, which couldn't be further from the truth. you've been led astray by your emotions and misconceptions about how things really are. in your reality these issues are cut and dry and you have a clear understanding in your conscious of what you perceive to be just. and so be it, as a free thinker we must applaud you for being so adamant on your stance, but you are not seeing the bigger picture here and you are assuming things because you have a set preconceived notion on how things should work. but nothing is ever that simple.

i would not force you to take a charge from me accusing you of being an "asshole", but i will call you a Machiavellian. that can be perceived as good or bad and both, it is up to you to decide if he is wise or not.

Nobody jumped down your throat


You need a serious attitude adjustment;


i hope this doesn't need to be explained.

Really just enjoy the music and your band. When you play bigger shows and festivals and get a nationwide following, Im sure you will know the name of your band


this gentleman sees the bigger picture and gets it for what its worth because it is nothing more than what he mentions in this passage. we are not the only other band in the states using dead Ahead as a band name, if you believe that then you live in a smaller world that i thought. you wish to come off as some all knowing proprietor, but you sir are not for you clearly have no understanding about what is taking place here.

Frankly, I hope you go ahead with the "Dead Ahead" thing and have great success with it for a while. Down the road, I hope you have built a great following of the brand and suddenly get hit with a cease and desist from the folks from The Schwag and lose everything you had built up to date. That would serve you well and offer a great lesson in arrogance and ignorance... and perhaps teach you the lesson that you don't know everything.

Grow the FUCK up.


you are an individual who is comfortable wishing ill-will on another individual who has not affected you in reality. scary stuff as you seem to almost break down emotionally over the subject. so bad in fact that you would point fingers and make wild accusations at someone who has nothing but good intent and wishes no ill-will back at you.

you promptly thanked them for it - yes - but then disregarded it.


why do you believe i have disregarded their advice? you have no idea about what goes on in my personal workings at home or in my band. maybe i wish to not make pubic what has been said between me and those this directly affects. whats difficult is that you are willingly letting it affect yourself personally. you are trying to speak for individuals that you do not in any way shape or from represent. you are trying to speak on my behalf at the same time and giving those comments negative overtones which i do not want to convey. but you try so hard to make this seem like something that it really isn't, you want to make this your argument which it is not. i am complacent because i have no reason to be anything else but. you wish to change that about me which is not possible as you have zero authority over my thoughts and feelings. If i were to allow you to change my process then i would have relinquished authority over my own conscious which would be bowing in the face of tyranny and is unacceptable for me as a free thinker. you will be unsuccessful in your attempt to dominate my choices and actions. you want all of us to believe that i am a "self absorbed asshole" because i do not do what you tell me to do and i dont think the way that you want me to think.

you want to make it seem as though you have some bigger authority, you want us to know who you know, who you talk to, who you associate with, that you have a boat and that you have the all knowing solution to a problem which has nothing to do with you. so who is self absorbed here? who is coming off as pretentious?

i am not trying to dominate how you think or feel in my writing. i am simply neutralizing you so as to not have my conscious burdened by your accusations, for you find pleasure in seeing another of us suffer from the effect of name calling and bashing. it is you taking comfort in seeing that i have a problem that affects me negatively.

why do you wish for me to think, feel and act as you do? what makes you feel that you have the authority to do so? what makes you think that you will be successful?

there is a simple solution to the problematic banter we engage in. i will not give you the answer to the problem. you are the one in the cave chained to the wall with preconceived notion. you can see the light at the end of the cave but you don't understand it's deeper meaning. you are the one who believes that an object is exactly what you've been told it to be when it in fact is a different object to someone else.

sometimes you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Last edited by LazyLightnin on Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Band Name and legal status....

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:26 am

viewforum.php?f=417&start=0
TWO MEN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE
:idea:
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