Strat hard tail bridge

Strat hard tail bridge

Postby Dozin » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:11 am

Does anyone know where I can get a hard tail bridge for a strat?

My buddy ordered one from Killer guitar components over a month ago and he's being an ass clown.
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby strumminsix » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:36 am

This is the only forum on the internet where someone asks this question and you won't get 100 replies of WHY or DON'T DO IT or HERE'S WHY IT'S WRONG!

I'd try this: http://www.guitarpartscentral.com/night ... ridge.html

I have one called a "hot rod drop top convertible bridge" but that company closed down. I found a lot of threads of folks asking for alternatives for that so that could help ya too!
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby Dozin » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:40 am

Don't do it?
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby strumminsix » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:45 am

Dozin wrote:Don't do it?

Sure, if you dig through Harmony Central or TheGearPage that's what the consensus is by the "wise ones".

My opinion is that a high quality 2 point trem on a well made guitar and recently setup by a pro is just as stable as any average hard tail.

But, I love me a good hardtail as well as a good trem!!!
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby gr8fullfred » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:25 am

No possible way is any trem as stable as a hard tail. period. And if you break a string, forget about it!
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby strumminsix » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:31 am

gr8fullfred wrote:No possible way is any trem as stable as a hard tail. period. And if you break a string, forget about it!

I'll just say "okay" to that closed mindedness as it's easier...
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby Mr.Burns » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:57 am

Ummm, I've always wondered, why so many different styles of trem, so many versions even from the same manufacturer?

Is it because these trem "experts" see room for improvement? Or is it because there is no right way to design a trem?

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a trem, but my experience with Floyd Rose type units left me cold. I know, I know Floyd Rose sucks, probably the worst ones, but it was enough to make me a hardtail player for life.

Besides, not having a hole big enough to fit a deck of cards through in the middle of your guitar's body might improve things like sustain, tone, etc.

Check out this non-trem bridge from Schaller. Completely adjustable, even string spacing.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_ta ... ridge.html
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby gr8fullfred » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:15 am

Well let us look at the history of ole Jerry, his guitars and the removal of the trem.

Significant work to convert Alligator from the fender trem to hard tail.

Wolf=hardtail, Tiger, Rosebud, hardtail.

Once you get rid of the slack, you never go back!

good enough for Jerry, good enough for me!

And just because I am stating a fact that you disagree with, does not make me closed minded!
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby tcsned » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:26 am

Wolf Jr - Steinberger trem :lol:
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby strumminsix » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:53 am

gr8fullfred wrote:Well let us look at the history of ole Jerry, his guitars and the removal of the trem.

Significant work to convert Alligator from the fender trem to hard tail.

Wolf=hardtail, Tiger, Rosebud, hardtail.

Once you get rid of the slack, you never go back!

good enough for Jerry, good enough for me!

And just because I am stating a fact that you disagree with, does not make me closed minded!


What you did was state your opinion. You stated "no way", then "period". Your mind is closed to other ideas aka being closed minded.

That was Jerry's preference. Jerry also liked top loaders, does that make those better?

A guitars ability to stay in tune is more about the quality of the neck, the quality of the body, the connection, the quality of the tuners, the cut of the nut, the height of the pickups, etc.
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby waldo041 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:34 am

i can agree that a good setup on a trem will render a guitar that stays in tune and all the factors that go into keeping a guitar in tune. however, the difference between trem and hardtail is string tension. the hardtail will have a stiffer tension because there will be no slack that the trem inherently has. the trem adjusts with string bending and this includes to some extent fretting them, and granted a good setup can keep the strings stiffer while fretting to keep the guitar in tune. but it will never be as stiff as a hardtail due to the physics of their designs.

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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby gr8fullfred » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:35 am

A guitars ability to stay in tune is more about the quality of the neck, the quality of the body, the connection, the quality of the tuners, the cut of the nut, the height of the pickups, etc.


Exactly, I agree with you. Its is the solid connection of the strings at the bridge that helps the situation.
Those loosely connected trems which are connected by springs, and are teetering on an edge do not provide the same rock solid connection as a hard tail system. And like I said, break a string, and the whole guitar goes out of tune. With a hard tail if you break a string the rest stays in tune.

This is not a personal attack on you, its my opinion on trems. They sound cool sometimes, they just do not work for me. The tuning stability is just nit there.

From the interview with Doug Irwin located here:
http://dozin.com/dougirwin/interviewpg3.html

DI: After a while, I complete the fifth guitar for him, Wolf Jr. which was one that he never really used
much on stage or anything, it's a guitar that doesn't have a head because it has an unusual tremolo system
on it. It's a Steinberger Trans Trem, and it uses strings, it has a ball end on each end of the string. So it
didn't have a peg head on it.


SQ: What's the advantage of having the two string ends like that?

DI: Well the idea was trying to come up with a tremolo system that would actually, because the tremolo allows somebody to lower the pitch of the strings by dropping the tension on it, but hoping that this whole thing that's all spring-loaded is going to come back to exactly the same place is at best a hope.

SQ: That's a long shot.

DI: Yeah, it's a long shot, so there were people that were trying to find some way to make the tremolo system work·

SQ: Floyd Rose, for instance?

DI: Well yeah, but Floyd Rose doesn't really solve the problem. Although there are some problems that Floyd Rose does solve because it's a problem when you break a string and you got to put another string on there because they'll all hooked to the same bridge. Well once you put another string on and retune it, then all the other strings are out of tune. That was one of the things, a lot of people liked the idea of the tremolo on a guitar, but as far as using it and hoping that it came back into exact pitch was hoping a lot. Some musicians are really pretty good at making that work, but Jerry was really exacting, he had to have the notes right. It couldn't be an eighth of a note off. So he never really used the tremolo very much, but he had me build the prototype of that, to see if we could solve the problems there were.


And here is the meat of it:

but Jerry was really exacting, he had to have the notes right. It couldn't be an eighth of a note off. So he never really used the tremolo very much,


Trems are cool but inaccurate, that is pretty much a fact. Or at least a commonly held opinion. I pretty much thought that all (or most) of us Jerry influenced types held that opinion.
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby strumminsix » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:00 am

Agree, Waldo. I find it's more about feel than tunability.

Fred, you are right, once a string breaks you are in major trouble. I own many of both and can say with certainty, that once a string breaks on a hard tail, you are no longer in perfect pitch.

"I pretty much thought that all (or most) of us Jerry influenced types held that opinion."
What about us Weir-heads?
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby jester536 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:46 am

I need some clarification...what does the pickup height have to do with the ability of a guiitar to stay in tune?
thanks.
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Re: Strat hard tail bridge

Postby waldo041 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:44 am

jester536 wrote:I need some clarification...what does the pickup height have to do with the ability of a guiitar to stay in tune?
thanks.


the magnets of the pickups will pull the strings and cause the intonation not to be set properly, thus creating an out of tune guitar. the closer to the strings the pickups get the more they pull the strings.

peace,
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