Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:03 am

Anyone ever find a recording where Phil was just not on his game? I was thinking it might help provide insight into his thinking.
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby Frenchdead » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:10 am

who said , when phil was on , the band was on ?
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby astroman99 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:15 am

I've heard one or two nites where Phil didn't really sing too well.
but I am guessing you mean playing wise, am I right?
I think I remember a decade(80's)
when I had to struggle at almost every show(exaggeration...I know) I was at to hear his bass. :cry:
But from what I could hear it was all pretty good.
Never more than a stray note here or there that was a clammer from what I can remember.
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:27 am

I'm listening to 12/06/73.
DarkStar. 43+minutes.
Phil doesn't sound so great.
There is the feedback segment he does - which is fine its feedback - but there is a solo portion where he slides up and bends a note.Awful.He does it a few times.
I dont know if this would classify as a whole 'off night' though ....
:D
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby jdsmodulus » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:11 am

Can we include P&F? :lol:
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:23 am

Tennessee Jedi wrote:I'm listening to 12/06/73.
DarkStar. 43+minutes.
Phil doesn't sound so great.
There is the feedback segment he does - which is fine its feedback - but there is a solo portion where he slides up and bends a note.Awful.He does it a few times.
I dont know if this would classify as a whole 'off night' though ....
:D


I may have to hunt for those awkward notes in the middle, but 12/6/73 Dark Star is BRILLIANT. They do happen a lot in improvisations that take risks to this degree- I could probably find you similar clunkers in the legendary 8/27/72...
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:40 am

tigerstrat wrote:
Tennessee Jedi wrote:I'm listening to 12/06/73.
DarkStar. 43+minutes.
Phil doesn't sound so great.
There is the feedback segment he does - which is fine its feedback - but there is a solo portion where he slides up and bends a note.Awful.He does it a few times.
I dont know if this would classify as a whole 'off night' though ....
:D


I may have to hunt for those awkward notes in the middle, but 12/6/73 Dark Star is BRILLIANT. They do happen a lot in improvisations that take risks to this degree- I could probably find you similar clunkers in the legendary 8/27/72...

just that one part .....
@ the 27.00th minute ..... guess its not sooooo bad ... but kinda noodly .... ehhhhh.
..... the wah wah and and Rhodes (?) sound with feedback bass is ok ....
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby Dozin » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:30 pm

Phil and Bobby were always on!!!

It's all about the lead guy :lol:
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby Grateful Dad » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:35 pm

Can't recall a bad Phil night, BUT....
Could someone find a way to delete some of Donna's miscues from otherwise great jams? :shock:
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby jeffm725 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:40 am

what constitutes an off night? Hitting clams? Something else?

To me a Phil off night was not about hitting wrong notes. It was about his level of investment into the collective creation of the music.
In the early 80's in what Phil self-describes as his "Heineken era" he would often not care to insert himself into jams in any meaningful way. Part of it was he was messed up, part of it was he was disillusioned because Jer was messed up.
I was at some shows (spring 84 east coast comes to mind as one) where Phil actually sat down on the edge of the drum riser in total disinterest.
I saw him do it during The Other One (of all songs! you think the other one would engage him) at New Have Coliseum in spring of 84, and saw it a couple other times in that time frame as well.

So to me, you wouldnt hear Phil clam it up much, but his off nights were nights where he wasnt totally investing himself in the music.
Can you hear it on tape? Maybe sometimes you can tell, other times maybe not. I think I can tell, especially when put together with memories of shows where he looked disinterested.
Last edited by jeffm725 on Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby astroman99 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:48 am

jeffm725 wrote:what constitutes an off night? Hitting clams? Something else?

To me a Phil off night was not about hitting wrong notes. It was about his level of investment into the collective creation of the music.
In the early 80's in what Phil self-describes as his "Heineken era" he would often not care to insert himself into jams in any meaningful way. Part of it was he was messed up, part of it was he was disillusioned because Jer was messed up.
I was at some shows (spring 84 east coast comes to mind as one) where Phil actually sat down on the edge of the drum riser in total disinterest.
I saw him do it during The Other One (of all songs! you think the other one would engage him) at New Have Coliseum in spring of 84, and saw it a couple other times in that time frame as well.

So to me, you wouldnt here Phil clam it up much, but his off nights were nights where he wasnt totally investing himself in the music.
Can you hear it on tape? Maybe sometimes you can tell, other times maybe not. I think I can tell, especially when put together with memories of shows where he looked disinterested.


Well said, this is what I alluded to in my semi sarcastic post. :roll: :P

How many warf rats did I see where Phil just looked totally bored, and very low in the mix?
a lot
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:35 am

I have heard guys bitch about the year Phil went from a 4 string to a 5 string .....
'81 ?
:D
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby astroman99 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:49 am

Tennessee Jedi wrote:I have heard guys bitch about the year Phil went from a 4 string to a 5 string .....
'81 ?
:D

I thought that was 1982- fall tour last of the 4 string? :shock:
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:56 am

astroman99 wrote:
Tennessee Jedi wrote:I have heard guys bitch about the year Phil went from a 4 string to a 5 string .....
'81 ?
:D

I thought that was 1982- fall tour last of the 4 string? :shock:

Could be ..... I don't have the ear to pick out if Phil is 4or 5 or 6 stringing it ....
:D
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Re: Any recordings where Phil ever had an off night?

Postby jdsmodulus » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:54 am

I like reading the stories about Phil sitting down or Bob climbing the walls or Jerry leaving early. I think its stuff like this that brings you closer to the dead because you had to be there in order to tell that story. I couldnt really say if Phil had an off night when I saw him with the GD. But strange stuff happened all of the time. Any pics of Phil sitting down? Now that would be something.
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