Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby astroman99 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:56 am

strumminsix wrote:Seem I can recall alot of subtle trainwrecks where Jerry makes the band play "follow the leader" as he charges through songs "his own way".
That's why I avoid many 80/90s shows. Can't stand hearing Bobby and Phil being all reactionary to how Jerry decides to play the tune that night.

One of my favorites is the 77 Dancin where Bobby roars and starts cracking himself and Donna up and they both fuck-up the lyrics.


WOW, I don't know how to respond, so Phil & Bobby let themselves be led thru bad versions of songs, whole concerts and tours because they were
1-uninspired
2-didn't give a shit
3-didn't give a shit
4-just liked the free hotels and beers
good thing the old f--ker died ...I guess :?
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby strumminsix » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:14 am

astroman99 wrote:
strumminsix wrote:Seem I can recall alot of subtle trainwrecks where Jerry makes the band play "follow the leader" as he charges through songs "his own way".
That's why I avoid many 80/90s shows. Can't stand hearing Bobby and Phil being all reactionary to how Jerry decides to play the tune that night.

One of my favorites is the 77 Dancin where Bobby roars and starts cracking himself and Donna up and they both fuck-up the lyrics.


WOW, I don't know how to respond, so Phil & Bobby let themselves be led thru bad versions of songs, whole concerts and tours because they were
1-uninspired
2-didn't give a shit
3-didn't give a shit
4-just liked the free hotels and beers
good thing the old f--ker died ...I guess :?


WTF? If you don't know how to respond then chill out and think it through. Where did I say whole concerts? Where did I say whole tours?

Apparently you either aren't hearing what I, and many others, hear on those shows.

Listen to some tunes like Terrapin especially in the back-half where Jerry aborts the timing he composed it with and played it with in the 70s. In the 70s the boys hit each chord change deliberately and in unison (Jerry, Bobby, Phil, Drummers, Keith). Flash forward many years and when Jerry changes the structure and you don't hear the drum accents of the 70s and Bobby and Phil not playing deliberately and coming in on the tonic/chord once Jerry makes the change.
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby astroman99 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:32 am

Hmm
so he just fudged Terrapin, thats not what you wrote, is it?
you did write as he charges thru songs"his own way" they are his songs, whose way should he play them, yes they changed tempos and other nuances from the seventies to the eighties.
Yes I agree he fudged things up, but your post kinda of made it sound like the rest of the band was asleep at the wheel, listen to the eighties I don't here Phil ever leading songs or jams, for that matter Bobby too..
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby strumminsix » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:46 am

astroman99 wrote:Hmm
so he just fudged Terrapin, thats not what you wrote, is it?
you did write as he charges thru songs"his own way" they are his songs, whose way should he play them, yes they changed tempos and other nuances from the seventies to the eighties.
Yes I agree he fudged things up, but your post kinda of made it sound like the rest of the band was asleep at the wheel, listen to the eighties I don't here Phil ever leading songs or jams, for that matter Bobby too..


There are others. Slipknot is another example. Do I really need to go to my discs for references and turn this into a dissertation? What is your beef?

Never did I say asleep. I said reactionary. Phil nor Bobby could lead through a jam if they had no clue what Jerry would do with the construct.

Maybe you don't hear it. Maybe that doesn't matter to you. Maybe that quality of the band playing tight through complex constructs does it for me and that looser feel of Jerry stretching it and aborting the construct does it for you.
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:24 am

astroman99 wrote:Hmm
so he just fudged Terrapin, thats not what you wrote, is it?
you did write as he charges thru songs"his own way" they are his songs, whose way should he play them, yes they changed tempos and other nuances from the seventies to the eighties.
Yes I agree he fudged things up, but your post kinda of made it sound like the rest of the band was asleep at the wheel, listen to the eighties I don't here Phil ever leading songs or jams, for that matter Bobby too..


Not tryin' to get involved or in between this 1-on-1, and I'm not exactly sure what other song examples you are using, but I see a lot of the the general difference between songs played in the 80's vs 70s as the later versions of the songs "being allowed to breath", a key feature of "Grateful Deadness" imho, and actually a little more similar to early 70's looseness/greasiness. And fwiw imho although Bobby imo doesn't lead much after the hiatus, there is still a lot of input from Phil in the 80's, as seen in the extended "Deal" coda, or the exploded versions of "Sugaree", the much headier and more delicious(imho) Estimated and Scarlet segue jams... everyone's mileage will vary.

Back on topic: two top-tier trainwrecks are BOTH full versions of Hey Jude they ever played- the Brent 3/22/90 AND the Pigpen 3/1/69.

Opening song of 6/18/74, Promised Land: they do the "faked A" intro, but Jerry forgets to shift into C, and basically plays almost the full "Johnny B Goode" intro, stepping all over Bob's opening lyrics. Takes about 2/3 of the remainder of the tune for them to start sounding like a professional band!
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby strumminsix » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:29 am

tigerstrat wrote:Not tryin' to get involved or in between this 1-on-1, and I'm not exactly sure what other song examples you are using, but I see a lot of the the general difference between songs played in the 80's vs 70s as the later versions of the songs "being allowed to breath", a key feature of "Grateful Deadness" imho, and actually a little more similar to early 70's looseness/greasiness. And fwiw imho although Bobby imo doesn't lead much after the hiatus, there is still a lot of input from Phil in the 80's, as seen in the extended "Deal" coda, or the exploded versions of "Sugaree", the much headier and more delicious(imho) Estimated and Scarlet segue jams... everyone's mileage will vary.


Fair enough for me! You appreciate the songs breathing more and I miss the tightness.
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby mttourpro » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:42 am

astroman99 wrote:
strumminsix wrote:Seem I can recall alot of subtle trainwrecks where Jerry makes the band play "follow the leader" as he charges through songs "his own way".
That's why I avoid many 80/90s shows. Can't stand hearing Bobby and Phil being all reactionary to how Jerry decides to play the tune that night.

One of my favorites is the 77 Dancin where Bobby roars and starts cracking himself and Donna up and they both fuck-up the lyrics.


WOW, I don't know how to respond, so Phil & Bobby let themselves be led thru bad versions of songs, whole concerts and tours because they were
1-uninspired
2-didn't give a shit
3-didn't give a shit
4-just liked the free hotels and beers
good thing the old f--ker died ...I guess :?


I'm not trying to butt in or referee either, but what I think is really going on in these spots is that Jerry either flubs or perhaps intentionally changes some aspect of the time/harmony---prolly a flub---in any event, I don't think what Bob and Phil are doing in these spots has ANYTHING to do with not giving a shit or being uninspired. It does have to do with being reactionary, which is exactly what good players need to do if the singer or lead player screws up. If they were uninspired they wouldn't give a shit and just plow ahead the "right" way, thus amplifying the clam.

Every band I've been in has had one golden rule and that is to always follow the singer or lead player as best as possible in the event of a major clam----that's the only way to avert a train wreck. Whatddya think Bob means when he says "disaster narrowly averted"?!
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby strumminsix » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:33 pm

mttourpro wrote:
astroman99 wrote:
strumminsix wrote:Seem I can recall alot of subtle trainwrecks where Jerry makes the band play "follow the leader" as he charges through songs "his own way".
That's why I avoid many 80/90s shows. Can't stand hearing Bobby and Phil being all reactionary to how Jerry decides to play the tune that night.

One of my favorites is the 77 Dancin where Bobby roars and starts cracking himself and Donna up and they both fuck-up the lyrics.


WOW, I don't know how to respond, so Phil & Bobby let themselves be led thru bad versions of songs, whole concerts and tours because they were
1-uninspired
2-didn't give a shit
3-didn't give a shit
4-just liked the free hotels and beers
good thing the old f--ker died ...I guess :?


I'm not trying to butt in or referee either, but what I think is really going on in these spots is that Jerry either flubs or perhaps intentionally changes some aspect of the time/harmony---prolly a flub---in any event, I don't think what Bob and Phil are doing in these spots has ANYTHING to do with not giving a shit or being uninspired. It does have to do with being reactionary, which is exactly what good players need to do if the singer or lead player screws up. If they were uninspired they wouldn't give a shit and just plow ahead the "right" way, thus amplifying the clam.

Every band I've been in has had one golden rule and that is to always follow the singer or lead player as best as possible in the event of a major clam----that's the only way to avert a train wreck.

Bingo!

mttourpro wrote:Whatddya think Bob means when he says "disaster narrowly averted"?!

that the switch operator got the message in time and opened up the switch cuz the monkey had the locomotive under control , of course.
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby bodiddley » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:05 pm

Nobody mentioned the April fools joke (Promised Land on diff. instruments) of '81? Yes it was a semi-manufactured train wreck, but a train wreck none-the-less. I'd pretty much call anytime Donna opened her mouth pre-'75 a train wreck but that's just me.
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby strumminsix » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:13 pm

bodiddley wrote:Nobody mentioned the April fools joke (Promised Land on diff. instruments) of '81? Yes it was a semi-manufactured train wreck, but a train wreck none-the-less. I'd pretty much call anytime Donna opened her mouth pre-'75 a train wreck but that's just me.

Or coming back into Playin' any year, any show.
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby bodiddley » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:14 pm

Oddly, I've come to love her banshee wails on most "Playin's". Like primal scream therapy timed to music. Go figure. She ruined every early "Greatest Story" though, among other things.
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby astroman99 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:17 am

the Omni 3-27-95, the whole band but Jerry thinks Sugaree is over at the end of the last jam, but Jerry remembers he has one more verse to sing, so at the end of the jam the band is ending the song in a crescendo and shimmer, Jerry just waits, the band hits what it thinks is the last note, and Jerry doesn''t miss a beat, and starts the last verse, "well shake it up now..sugaree"
Now that is a train wreck, but 1995 was chock full of them,
like 3-23-95, I remember a huge train wreck at the end of Scarlet-fire--charlotte, SC,
but don't have a tape of that one!
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby jdsmodulus » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:59 am

astroman99 wrote:the Omni 3-27-95, the whole band but Jerry thinks Sugaree is over at the end of the last jam, but Jerry remembers he has one more verse to sing, so at the end of the jam the band is ending the song in a crescendo and shimmer, Jerry just waits, the band hits what it thinks is the last note, and Jerry doesn''t miss a beat, and starts the last verse, "well shake it up now..sugaree"
Now that is a train wreck, but 1995 was chock full of them,
like 3-23-95, I remember a huge train wreck at the end of Scarlet-fire--charlotte, SC,
but don't have a tape of that one!

Isnt that Charlotte? now was (I dont have a deadbase in front of me) Unbroken>Scarlet>Fire or S>F>U? I really started to like Jerrys Fire ending in the last few versions.
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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby kenneybonz » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:11 am

i guess this qualifies.. the summ rfk show in 85 the night before the coma... i hope i get this right, but folks, feel free to correct me on the facts... bobby is trying to play not fade away, i think and maybe jerry good loving but it ends in storming off the stage to F*&c You .. the next night.. before the coma, during the band intro, jerry intros bob as "and on rythym guitar, my very best friend in the whole wide world, mr bob weir"

i think that qualifies as train wreck.. throw in the coma and it might just be unbeatable.. but i am sure I botched those details a bunch.. owing to father time, :D :drink: and assorted other twists, but y'all can correct me without hurting my feelings....

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Re: Worst/Best/Funniest GD Train Wrecks?

Postby frankielee » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:22 pm

Think it was in 69 at Fillmore East-Pigpen singing Hey Jude- absolutlely a freakin' disaster.
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