Hard To Handle Guitar Solo 1971/08/06

Hard To Handle Guitar Solo 1971/08/06

Postby sarraqum » Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:11 am

Goddamit, this has to be one best Pigpen-era guitar solos I've ever heard. Absolutely amazing!
And the show is still available for download at archive.org, highly recommended!
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Postby violanojblues » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:16 am

Yeah, you better hurry up and download it before Bobby gets in the way.
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Postby strumminsix » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:00 pm

[quote="violanojblues"]Yeah, you better hurry up and download it before Bobby gets in the way.[/quote]

You really haven't researched this have you? Do your homework and you'll find out that this was not a Bobby thing it was a band failure and Bobby was the only one involved enough at the time with GDM to take action.

Phil acknowledges that he made the right decision and so have other bandmembers. Jerry wanted to the band to sell out so they could take it easy and finally retire their massive tours and play short runs and still keep corporate GD alive.

The band allowed trading of taped shows. SBDs are not taped shows they were recorded. Taking shows off a server is not trading it's downloading.

Why don't you try trading like the band allows. I do at least 1 or 2 every week. Or BT your shows which the band does not object to since it's still person to person. You can even do SBDs of those.

Wow, entertaining for 40 years over 20,000 hours of music, thousands of concerts, millions of memories and people still complain.
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Postby violanojblues » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:38 pm

You?re right, I shouldn?t be complaining. I still do all my trading via snail mail. It was a friend who told me about that whole deal (great friend, ?eh?) and I should not have made that comment.

I didn?t mean to offend anyone especially a man who, for 40 years, has given me some of the most jaw dropping music imaginable. (I gotta thank ?strumminsix? for puttin? me in my place.) The thing that I forget sometimes is that this music is THEIRS. Theirs to do with as they please. To download for a reasonable fee or trade freely. I?m just happy that we?re able to hear this music.

Back to the most important thing. This solo is amazing! This whole show is amazing. Jerry is on fire and the rest of the band is in top form. Hard to beat it.

My most sincerest apologies to all who may have been offended by my senseless comment.
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Postby violanojblues » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:17 pm

Back to the music.

I have three Pigpen-era Jerry solos that top my list. The first is the New Potato Caboose from Two From The Vault. It simply soars. The second is the Lovelight jam from the 2/28/69 Fillmore West. One of the most underrated jams ever. And the third comes from Hapur College on Dicks Picks 8. Jerry is like the "energizer bunny." He just doesn't stop jammin'. The Other One Suite and Viola Lee Blues from that show are "best-ever" versions, (every song played at that show is) in my opinion.

I'll shut up now.
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Postby strumminsix » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:12 pm

Right on bro.........


If you can get your hands on it the HTH on "Backstage Pass" VHS is the most delicious one I've ever heard. It's got all the nice bubbles and dirty jams and roller-coaster appeal but then they pull out the "orgasm jam" (HUGE BUILD-UP) and WHAM-O back into the main-riff.

The GD were a much different band back in the day w/Pig. Much more R&B and bluesy. TC rearlly broke them of that. Sadly, I much prefer 60s dead as far as jams 70s for performance and the only thing the 80s have is Brent.
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Postby mikeohiostate » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:54 pm

TC- i never really understood his roll in the GD. I know he played keys with them for a while, but thats it.

Strumminsix or anyother gurus out there, could you please enlighten me? Any good shows he is notable for playing in? WHat style did he bring to the GD? why did he play with them in the first place and why did he leave?


thnks
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Postby spilly » Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:40 pm

He was the lead singer, he had the blues something fierce, and he died. pigpen was the guy who turned to jerry garcia one day and said "lets start an electric blues band" without the pen the dead would never have existed.
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Postby Billbbill » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:10 pm

I could be wrong but is he asking about (TC) Tom Constantine? If so, I don't know a whole helluva lot about him my own damn self.
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Postby strumminsix » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:15 pm

mikeohiostate wrote:TC- i never really understood his roll in the GD. I know he played keys with them for a while, but thats it.

Strumminsix or anyother gurus out there, could you please enlighten me? Any good shows he is notable for playing in? WHat style did he bring to the GD? why did he play with them in the first place and why did he leave?


thnks


Mike, good shows are very qualitative. If you jump through 69 you'll get some.

He brought a psychedlic, intense, emotional keys mood to the band which broke them of the electric rock / R&B band and laid the groundwork for what they became. Additionally he brought emmense keyboard talent which was more on par with Jerry's ability on guitar while Pig was not as accomplished on keys.

He began playing with them because of his relationship with Phil and gave the band some new inspiration plus Pig was starting to go downhill.

He left as he was often an outisder especially with acid. Also he was very spiritual (Scientology even back then) and felt like the type of environment with the band putting himself in was one he shouldn't part of.
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Postby mikeohiostate » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:11 pm

Billbbill wrote:I could be wrong but is he asking about (TC) Tom Constantine? If so, I don't know a whole helluva lot about him my own damn self.


Yes, Im asking about Tom Constantine.

Strumminsix, thanks for the explanation. I'll go digging in my digital archive of GD and find some good '69 shows. Didn't he play keys on Live/Dead? I love the organ on Live/Dead's Dark Star. Is that him or pigpen?

I was listening to a show about a week ago. Randomly the band stops and TC started playing Bach solo. I thought it was funny.


PS-did he sing any?

Thanks!
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Postby strumminsix » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:45 pm

MIKE! Nope, I've never heard his vocals. That's not to say he didn't join in on a harmony. I'd guess with his skills he would really be able to nail the parts.

Live Dead does have TC on it.

Here are some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Constanten
http://www.deaddisc.com/GDFD_Tom_Constanten.htm
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Postby amyjared » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:06 pm

You really haven't researched this have you? Do your homework and you'll find out that this was not a Bobby thing it was a band failure and Bobby was the only one involved enough at the time with GDM to take action.

Phil acknowledges that he made the right decision and so have other bandmembers. Jerry wanted to the band to sell out so they could take it easy and finally retire their massive tours and play short runs and still keep corporate GD alive.

The band allowed trading of taped shows. SBDs are not taped shows they were recorded. Taking shows off a server is not trading it's downloading.

Why don't you try trading like the band allows. I do at least 1 or 2 every week. Or BT your shows which the band does not object to since it's still person to person. You can even do SBDs of those.

Wow, entertaining for 40 years over 20,000 hours of music, thousands of concerts, millions of memories and people still complain.


I must beg to differ with some of this. I have tried to research this. I love the band and have traded tapes be they SB, audience, FM, whatever. Jerry always maintained that when he was done playing the music, it wasn't his anymore and we could do with it whatever we want.
Phil was quoted as saying that he used Archives.org and didn't want to see it messed with but he wasn't consulted. Bobby seems to forget that even though I (and most every other head I know) trade, download, whatever, we still buy the Dick's picks when they come out. It is not costing them any money because we'll still purchase cd's and dvd's when they come out and speaking of money, they made more on ONE concert than most of us make in five years. If they're worried about cash, they should have managed it better. I realize we're not just talking about Bobby, but all the folks at GD, but they can't expect things to last forever. I think it was a terrible idea to remove the download capability from Archives and can't think of any reason that has persuaded me different. Yes they entertained me for quite a long time, but don't forget...I made it possible and sunk in thousands and thousands of dollars to help it along. I'm not bitter, just disappointed. I'm more than happy to listen to more arguments and be swayed, but so far none has worked. Someone mentioned that it had to do with the drummers not being credited on songs and not receiving royalties, so they felt they needed to stop it to make more money? Not sure if that's true or not.

Anyhow, on to TC. You've probably seen this, but here's a great short of the boys at the Playboy Mansion with TC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_fullscreen ... ful%20Dead%2
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Postby strumminsix » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:01 pm

[quote="amyjared"][quote]You really haven't researched this have you? Do your homework and you'll find out that this was not a Bobby thing it was a band failure and Bobby was the only one involved enough at the time with GDM to take action.

Phil acknowledges that he made the right decision and so have other bandmembers. Jerry wanted to the band to sell out so they could take it easy and finally retire their massive tours and play short runs and still keep corporate GD alive.

The band allowed trading of taped shows. SBDs are not taped shows they were recorded. Taking shows off a server is not trading it's downloading.

Why don't you try trading like the band allows. I do at least 1 or 2 every week. Or BT your shows which the band does not object to since it's still person to person. You can even do SBDs of those.

Wow, entertaining for 40 years over 20,000 hours of music, thousands of concerts, millions of memories and people still complain.[/quote]

I must beg to differ with some of this. I have tried to research this. I love the band and have traded tapes be they SB, audience, FM, whatever. Jerry always maintained that when he was done playing the music, it wasn't his anymore and we could do with it whatever we want.
Phil was quoted as saying that he used Archives.org and didn't want to see it messed with but he wasn't consulted. Bobby seems to forget that even though I (and most every other head I know) trade, download, whatever, we still buy the Dick's picks when they come out. It is not costing them any money because we'll still purchase cd's and dvd's when they come out and speaking of money, they made more on ONE concert than most of us make in five years. If they're worried about cash, they should have managed it better. I realize we're not just talking about Bobby, but all the folks at GD, but they can't expect things to last forever. I think it was a terrible idea to remove the download capability from Archives and can't think of any reason that has persuaded me different. Yes they entertained me for quite a long time, but don't forget...I made it possible and sunk in thousands and thousands of dollars to help it along. I'm not bitter, just disappointed. I'm more than happy to listen to more arguments and be swayed, but so far none has worked. Someone mentioned that it had to do with the drummers not being credited on songs and not receiving royalties, so they felt they needed to stop it to make more money? Not sure if that's true or not.

Anyhow, on to TC. You've probably seen this, but here's a great short of the boys at the Playboy Mansion with TC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_fullscreen ... ful%20Dead%2[/quote]


Dig deeper in your research.

Firstly, Jerry's Quote was to tapers not soundboard recorders.

Secondly, soundboard taps were never allowed by the GD it was a Healy thing and Bear thing before him

Thirdly, Phil, keep reading you stopped after you read one article. Since that time he said Bobby made the right decision after all this went down and made a very tough, but correct decision. Phil did not say what you said he said ("It was brought to my attention that all of the Grateful Dead shows were taken down from Archive.org right before Thanksgiving. I was not part of this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be pulled. I do feel that the music is the Grateful Dead's legacy and I hope that one way or another all of it is available for those who want it . I have enjoyed using Archive.org and found it invaluable during the writing of my book. I found myself being pulled back in time listening to old Grateful Dead shows while giggling with glee or feeling that ache in my heart listening to Jerry's poetic guitar and sweet voice.
We are musicians not businessmen and have made good and bad decisions on our journey. We do love and care about our community as you helped us make the music. We could not have made this kind of music without you as you allowed us to play "without a net". Your love, trust and patience made it possible for us to try again the next show when we couldn't get that magic carpet off the ground. Your concerns have been heard and I am sure are being respectfully addressed."
- Phil)

Fourthly, trading, downloading from a server is not trading. The band never allowed mass distribution of their music they allowed person-to=person trades without an exchange of money even if it were just the cost of the media

Fifthly, Dick's Picks, why would anyone in their right mind buy a $30 CD when you can have nearly the same quality free?

Sixthly, the GD paid royalties to people whose music they cover. It's the same reason Ed & Gregg took down many tabs all because of royalties. It's simple finances. The GD performed the music people got SBDs and now artists are not getting their royalties they deserve.

Finally, the point that too many emotional people lost is that we never should have had the SBDs to begin with and just fucking appreciate what we have.

AUDs are what Jerry was referring to
AUDs are what you cannot get on DPs
AUDs are what the fans own

If you dig further and further you'll realize the bands ultimate endstate goal was a project called "terrapins tation". It's been in the works for years now and it will be a site run by the GD cataloging all of thier music.

It's really laughable that people are mad at someone who made a decision that they were legally obligated to do. Hmmm, shut down the SBDs or get sued? Tough decision Bobby. No wonder Phil wasn't consulted.

So people are made that Bobby and the big bad GD corporation want to keep their people employed. Ya, sure you were a loyal fan but they worked their assess off while a bunch of kids got stoned and listened for 30 fucking years and your position is well I bought concert tickets and CDs and should never have had SBDs to begin with but was fortunate enough to so now I think I deserve them even if that means that people who supported the organization get canned.

I think you need to recognize the advice you so freely gave to others " can't expect things to last forever" that's what you say to people who are losing their jobs cuz you want free SBDs.

That attitude of gimme, gimme, gimme is what KILLED the scened. Add one part GIMME and one part TouchHead and you wonder why the scene turned to shit.
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Postby mikeohiostate » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:57 pm

I used to be one of those people who were angry about the SBDs being pulled. Noticed the words used to be.

After thinking about it more, I realize that Bobby & the GDP were making a wise choice by pulling the boards down. I heard that Ramrod, the guy that devoted his life to the GD since the 60's, has recently been laid off due to lack of funding. The GDP is dying. At this point, they should do everything it takes to stay alive for the fans.

I Also feel bad for Bobby. Remember that interview, the "SEE YA!" one? Most people heard that and started knocking Bobby for being greedy. However, he just happened to get caught up in the moment and spoke the truth... True fans won't leave the Dead becuase of pulled SBD downloads. Never.

I'll admit, I never really purchased many DP's or vault releases unless it was something really good. Archive.org was my jukebox. Since all of this has occured I have purchased several DP's, vault releases, and stuido albums... The GDP is dying and they need support.

Why get mad at them for wanting to retire comfortably? Afterall, standing up infront of thousands of people every night, traveling the next day, and performing again FOR THIRTY YEARS is one tough job. Even towards the end Jerry (or his advisors) were "selling-out" in a way. Cherry Garcia Ice Cream? J.Garcia Neck Ties? More profit for retirement.

My point is, these guys deserve everything. They have given us so much! Bobby, Billy, PHIL, Mickey... They deserve whatever they ask for. Downloading SBDs from Archive.org won't pay for the college of Bobby's kids... or Phil's health insurance (haha)!


Good grief...
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