Pigpen questions

Pigpen questions

Postby Zack » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:13 am

I have a couple of questions about Pigpen as I listen to disc 2 of Dick's #8.

1. Did Pig sing backup on songs where he wasn't singing lead? I can't ever really hear him in the mix.

2. At what point was Pig busted to congas? Was it the moment TC arrived, or were there times when the 69-70 Dead had a two-keyboard lineup? Did he go back to keys during the post-TC pre-Keith period?

3. Did Pig stay on stage the whole show, or did he leave the stage sometimes?

Obviously, I need to get a hold of some good Pig-era video . . . But for the moment, thanks in advance for the answers.
First show: Spectrum, Philly 4-25-83
Last show: RFK, Washington, DC 6-25-95
Zack
Rosebud
Rosebud
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:58 pm

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby Zack » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:51 am

Nearly 100 views and no responses. Strange these questions seem so hard. I've checked here every day and done some other research as well. And I believe, yes, Pig played no keys with TC in the band, no he did not sing backup vocals (which I find the strangest), yes, briefly went back to the Hammond after TC quit, and yes, often left the stage during the jams. But I'm not 100% sure.
First show: Spectrum, Philly 4-25-83
Last show: RFK, Washington, DC 6-25-95
Zack
Rosebud
Rosebud
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:58 pm

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:47 am

The thing that confuses me is he is on E 72. With Kieth.I always thought Pigpen just did some chords every once in awhile, while Kieth played piano. At the same time.
BUT ...
E 72 isnt all " live "- there are overdubs - so maybe he didn't .....
He might have left the stage because he was so sick and dying too.
I would rather go with Pigpen ( as limited as he was )than T.C any day - what were they thinking ? Is LIVE DEAD T.C. ? Both ?
Tigerstrat would know.....
User avatar
Tennessee Jedi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4222
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:29 am
Location: Bucks Co.Pa

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:00 am

Live Dead is pure TC, at least the parts you are thinking of.

At first (late 68) Pigpen had his own organ setup during TC's stint (in fact, Pig kept his B-3 and TC got the Vox Continental!), but over the year that followed, Pig played keys a lot less, or switched to percussion.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
User avatar
tigerstrat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:20 pm
Location: Portland,OR

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby willmusic » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:08 am

This is quoted from wiki cuz I'm being kinda lazy today, but from what I know myself, it's generally correct.
"In November 1968, Constanten was hired full time for the band, having only worked in the studio up to that point. Joe McIntire, an assistant road manager under Jonthan Reister, commented that "Pigpen was relegated to the congas at that point and it was really humiliating and he was really hurt, but he couldn't show it, couldn't talk about it." Ironically, the singer would achieve a new prominence throughout 1969, with versions of "Turn On Your Lovelight" (now fully ingrained as the band's show-stopping finale) regularly scaling fifteen to twenty minutes. He also developed an unlikely close friendship with Constanten based around their mutual aversion to psychedelics, and eventually served as his best man when Constanten wed. After Constanten's departure in January 1970 over musical and lifestyle differences, McKernan resumed keyboard duties.
In 1970, McKernan began experiencing congenital liver problems, likely exacerbated by his years of excessive drinking. After an August 1971 hospitalization, doctors requested that he stop touring indefinitely; pianist Keith Godchaux was subsequently hired and remained a permanent member of the band until 1979. Restless, the ailing Pigpen rejoined the band in December 1971 to supplement Godchaux on harmonica, percussion, and organ. Unfortunately, after their Europe '72 tour, McKernan's health had degenerated to the point where he could no longer continue on the road. His final concert appearance was June 17, 1972 at the Hollywood Bowl, in Los Angeles, California."
User avatar
willmusic
wolf
wolf
 
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:39 am
Location: VA

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby ELPManticore » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:24 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the conventional wisdom is that the overubs on E' 72 were Merl Saunders. You don't hear that organ on the Vault releases or the archives from 72.

I've always liked TC for keys, probably their most lysergic keyboardist, which is strange because I always thought he left due to differences with the band over drug use. Just naturally out there I guess. Def. the right person for the right time though.

Pigpen is pretty much the engima of the group through.
-Peace,

Dan
ELPManticore
Terrapin
Terrapin
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:45 am
Location: Worcester, MA

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby oconnors_35 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:29 pm

Zack wrote:3. Did Pig stay on stage the whole show, or did he leave the stage sometimes?


I have a friend that saw the Dead play at Clark University in Worcester on 4/20/69, and he claims he was drinking wine with Pig Pen on the side of the stage during the show.

SeanO
oconnors_35
Wavy Gravy
Wavy Gravy
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:35 am
Location: Northborough, MA

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby jonarobb » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:12 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_OtelBCEis

Check out the diminished lick Jerry throws in his solo at 1:26, schweet!
jonarobb
 

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:20 pm

Cool vid !
There you go - the Pig and Kieth - at the same time !
Mystery solved !
So - did Donna ever sit in with the Brent Dead ?
My buddy swears she did .....
:drink:
User avatar
Tennessee Jedi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4222
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:29 am
Location: Bucks Co.Pa

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby jonarobb » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:48 pm

Tennessee Jedi wrote:Cool vid !
There you go - the Pig and Kieth - at the same time !
Mystery solved !
So - did Donna ever sit in with the Brent Dead ?
My buddy swears she did .....
:drink:


Nah, after her last show in 79' that was it. No stage appearances with any of the band until with Phil in 97'. She didn't even accept her Rn'R Hall of Fame award with the band in 94'. I talked to her recently about those born again years and she just rolled eyes.
jonarobb
 

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby bobbybobbob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:59 pm

Born again years? Did Donna have a religious awakening?
bobbybobbob
Pigpen
Pigpen
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:44 am

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby jerrys.kids » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:01 am

great vid. pig sounds great, but doesn't look so good. all skinny and stuff. love that raw sound they had in those early days.
"Mama said, don't go near that river."
jerrys.kids
Pigpen
Pigpen
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Worcester,MA

Re: Pigpen questions

Postby Jerry1996x » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:11 pm

Restaring the thread... Does anyone know what kind of harmonica Pig used???? I cant find that info anywhere.
Jerry1996x
Steal Your Face
Steal Your Face
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:08 pm
Location: New Jersey


Return to Grateful Dead General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests