Warren and the envelope filter

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Warren and the envelope filter

Postby czyfingers » Sun May 17, 2009 2:10 pm

Has anyone else noticed how much Warren is using his qtron, mutron or whatever his choice envelope effect is? I love my qtron, and use it quite a bit, but he seems to be using it excessively and in songs where it's not really "appropriate". I was only able to see the Albany show, but have listened to them all. The first song that comes to mind from the one I saw is west la fadeaway. It was mutroned to death and in my opinion it took away from the song. Not trying to nitpick, I'm glad we have something to go see and listen to, but just curious what you guys thought about this.
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby deadguise » Sun May 17, 2009 3:13 pm

I agree, the only time it sounded good was on Estimated Prophet last Thursday...
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Mon May 18, 2009 7:41 am

I've been seeing warren since the late 80's with the ABB and all through the 90's with the Mule. LOVE Warren.
He is a great talent ,a great musician ; maybe one of the greats ?
He can channel Duane ; heard him do some great Cream Era Clapton ; Hendrix, etc.
Dude can play other guys stuff scary good.
So I dont get his take on Jerry FX .... its weak.
It seems like he worked a lot on some other guys vibes but not Jerry ....
I have listened to shows this tour and thought they sounded really good
Warren has been doing pretty good - LOVE his singing.
But some of his fx choices are just weak
I think his ev filter sound sounds cheapy/ digital .....
I'm not saying can him or he doesnt work well the boys. I LOVE Warren. But I was thinking this time he would go over the top a bit with some crazy Jerry sounds ......
I just dont get why he doesnt go for some tones.
:D
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby tigerstrat » Mon May 18, 2009 9:34 am

Sounds like he sets his peak too high and doesn't adjust his tone control to tame the Mu. As I posted in the Gorge thread, it seemed pretty unnecessary on the opening Music, and in Althea it seemed very extreme and bizarre; all the delicacy of the melody drowned in "wow" sauce.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby jonarobb » Mon May 18, 2009 9:59 am

tigerstrat wrote:Sounds like he sets his peak too high and doesn't adjust his tone control to tame the Mu. As I posted in the Gorge thread, it seemed pretty unnecessary on the opening Music, and in Althea it seemed very extreme and bizarre; all the delicacy of the melody drowned in "wow" sauce.


Well put. Jerry had that threshold/gain set so his pick dynamic really opened up the envelope accordingly. Warren just didn't read the instructions or something. I had a great time at the 4 shows I saw. Was really digging Warrens phrasing and the whole band just sounded good....UNTIL he used the Envelope Filter. It bordered on obscene. Like a bad SNL skit, or even worse, like a New Bohemians tune. Too bad.
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby astroman99 » Mon May 18, 2009 10:04 am

You guys are cracking the door open for further disgruntleness... :?
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Mon May 18, 2009 10:08 am

astroman99 wrote:You guys are cracking the door open for further disgruntleness... :?

Image
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby tigerstrat » Mon May 18, 2009 10:18 am

Your what hurts? Disgruntleness??
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby waldo041 » Mon May 18, 2009 10:40 am

envelope filters can be hard to tame when not placed properly. i am sure that is why warren is hit or miss with it. not to mention i am sure his effects are not all true bypass. basically the whole reason jerry devised his OBEL was for the mutron and then true bypassing the other effects was next. warren is an awesome player and deserves to be up there with the greats, just like jerry. but jerry was truly an innovator with his approach to the tech side. this, imho, really set him apart from the other great, just guitar/amp, players.

peace,
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby jackr » Mon May 18, 2009 3:03 pm

maybe he is not trying to be jerry. Maybe he is trying to be warren. Do you think he is trying too much to be like Jerrry?

I would not like to have to fill jerry's shoes. I dont care how good you are, I dont think it can be done.
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby yeahmom828 » Mon May 18, 2009 3:17 pm

Newbie here, registered just to respond to this thread.

Respectfully, I've been reading online discussions and talking to fellow Deadheads about The Dead since the tour was announced and can't believe all the nitpicking I'm hearing.

A sample of quotes: "No one can ever fill Jerry's shoes." "They might be playing Grateful Dead music, but they are NOT the Grateful Dead." "Bobby's singing everything different from how he used to." "Warren's great in Govt Mule and Allman Brothers Band, but his style is not suited for the Dead."

I thought of the last one immediately when I read this thread, and it was the last straw.

The vast majority of criticisms I've heard had to do with Warren and his style not being suited for the Dead, and I have to admit that having listened to recordings of his previous work with the Dead, I never felt like he had really integrated with the band, and I felt that he was simply playing his own style, possibly even aggressively insisting that he not be forced to simply be a Garcia tribute act. It never was a deal breaker for me though, I was able to appreciate his raw, brilliant musicianship, and thrilled to be able to listen to and go to Dead shows period.

In some ways, I can't blame Warren, since a player of his caliber is NOT going to be interested in being a copycat.

BUT from the first videos on Dead.net, posted around the time the tour was announced, and then on the early audience tapes, it was clear to me that Warren had made his peace with his role in the band, that he was more inclined this time to emulate Jerry more and to play within the Dead idiom, not as a copycat, but in honor of the heart and soul of the music. And when I saw this video on Dead.net, it gave me chills.

Jerry was back, not for real, but in spirit, and Warren was letting him back in. I know, it sounds corny, but I for one am damned grateful and I was enjoying the HELL out of the audience recordings posted throughout the tour at Archive.org, and the excitement mounted and mounted as the one and only show I was going to be able to attend, the Gorge show, grew closer and closer. I'm listening to the Bird Song from the 5/10 Shoreline show as I type this and it's sublime.

Warren's use of the envelope filter?!! People, how many Deadheads even know what the hell an envelope filter is? Do you really think that Jerry would care one bit? How many times did Jerry change his gear and how he used it? (I'll answer that one: From 1965 or so until the bitter end, all the frickin' time!)

The show at the Gorge only had one song from my wish list, Eyes of the World, but I'm a longtime Deadhead, going back to 1972, and I love it all!
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby jackr » Mon May 18, 2009 4:23 pm

yeahmom828 wrote:
Warren's use of the envelope filter?!! People, how many Deadheads even know what the hell an envelope filter is? Do you really think that Jerry would care one bit? How many times did Jerry change his gear and how he used it? (I'll answer that one: From 1965 or so until the bitter end, all the frickin' time!)



Hey Smiles, welcome to the forum.

Basically, "how many Deadheads even know what the hell an envelope filter is?"

The answer is just about everybody on this forum. For the most part we are all musicians (or in my case wannabe musician). There are some very knowledgeable people here that know music and particularly the dead inside and out. This is what we do here, we pick apart tunes analyze them and learn them.
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby yeahmom828 » Mon May 18, 2009 4:53 pm

Thanks for the welcome. Sorry for the snark.

Yeah, I get that what you're sayin', I'm a musician as well, but I never got heavily into gear and effects. I'm a rhythm guitarist and play my Epiphone Casino through a Fender Blues Jr., no pedals, just the guitar and amp. I like listening to a well-used effect, but I suppose I don't have as particular an ear for that kind of thing.

Mostly, I find SOOOOOOO much more to enjoy about the latest Dead incarnation than to not enjoy, and all the criticism just mounted and started to kill my buzz.
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby Crazy 9.5 Fingers » Mon May 18, 2009 5:15 pm

Have loved Warren for a long time but...

Very simply stated, I can not stand his abuse of the envelope filter. If you are going to do it, do it right.

One thing I really like about Warren though is the fact that his guitar tech (Brian Farmer) could also serve as his stunt double.
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Re: Warren and the envelope filter

Postby tigerstrat » Mon May 18, 2009 6:12 pm

yeahmom828 wrote:Warren's use of the envelope filter?!! People, how many Deadheads even know what the hell an envelope filter is? Do you really think that Jerry would care one bit? How many times did Jerry change his gear and how he used it? (I'll answer that one: From 1965 or so until the bitter end, all the frickin' time!)


I liked and sympathized with the rest of your first post, but to respond to this,

how many Deadheads even know what the hell an envelope filter is? : WE know, the people geeking on this little backwater of Deadheadism that created the need for the very message board where this was posted! But I think the point of the complaint (or at least my own perspective) is not that WH isn't slavishly using all the same settings& gear& configurations thereof as JG... but that WH is using his Q-Tron (or whatever he has)in a way that takes away from the performance rather than adds to it, where there is no call for it. Like Althea on Saturday... EF was on throughout with an fuzzy/OD edge and it made the song aggressive and weird; seemed like it left him no room to insert grace notes and intricate picking textures, and sounded a bit strangled when he tried to. He doesn't have to use it the same way JG did if he doesn't want to, but I would prefer to hear more of the songs w/o it.

Do you really think that Jerry would care one bit? Nobody here kids themselves that JG would care about much of anything that gets discussed on this board ... do we?

How many times did Jerry change his gear and how he used it? (I'll answer that one: From 1965 or so until the bitter end, all the frickin' time!) You answered that one! :cheers:
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