new grateful dead tour?

Talk about the recent Tours

Postby pappypgh » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:15 am

Zen Tricksters' lead guitarist is Jeff Mattson, I thought, Tour Pro.

I, for one, do NOT want a JERRY-esque player up there. What I DO want is someone who will bring not only great chops, but GREAT EARS. Neither Warren, Jimmy or Kimock listens enough to create "the magic." Those TWO things being said, that eliminates the dude from DSO, Mattson & any other dude trying to dial in Jerry's sound (they all do a GREAT job of it, don't get me wrong!)....but I'm not after trying to re-create "The Grateful Dead." I'm after seeing the Grateful Dead's MAGIC with another player.

This leaves only a small handful of players, IMO:

John Scofield
Robben Ford
and, sorry folks -
Mark Karan.

Karan's a LISTENER. Say what you will about his tone (you're off-base, IMO - he was INSANELY tasty at the last Obama rally @ the Warfield, again IMO). He's got good chops & he is not trying to play "follow ME, the leader."

Jimmy & Warren do that. It kills me. I'll be there anyway, and I LOVE Warren's playing - but he just GOES and expects all to follow (it seems like, to me, anyway). I'd rather have someone join the collective.
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
User avatar
pappypgh
Senior Member
 
Posts: 707
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:11 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Postby Emoto » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:07 am

jonarobb wrote:
BOUKINATOR wrote:I think it would be weird having someone like JK from DSO... does anyone really want to see them with someone trying to sound like Jerry? I don't.


YES!!!

I think the concensus is in that direction. I mean, c'mon, we're not talking Spinal Tap here. John from DSO for example has put his heart and soul into it. And he's good. That's what counts. You're not propping some schmuck up there and hoping to go back in time. Myself, and other old school heads are looking for the magic. And a big part of that magic comes with some attention to things like tone, and vocal stylizing, etc...

Barraco is a good example of someone who came out of the Dead cover scene and was embraced by the band. Howcome it can't be one of the many smokin' guitarists paying the same honor and respect to Garcia thoroughly with attention to detail?

Jeff Mattson, again, I'll say it, he's light years ahead of Warren Haynes, Jimmy Herring, Steve Kimock, Larry Campbell, and others, in his ability to cop Jerry's style. Neither one of them are necessarily better. It's just a fit.

I saw Kimock a few months back and they were doing Eyes of the World. I literally had to split. I couldn't believe how whack it sounded.

Mark Karan. Does he even know what reverb is?

Jimmy Herring. Those octave slides and chord comping sound much better in another band.

I'm not slamming these guys. I play myself and I know what it takes to stay on top of the game. And even though it's a done deal, and it was said on another forum I believe, with Warren Haynes, it sounds like The Allman Brothers covering the Grateful Dead. Especially now that Weir is playing with so much gain it's just too much distortion on stage.

I enjoy the discussion though and glad everyone is chiming in so thoughtfully and passionately.

I'll be there on the 13th.


We have to keep in mind that personal chemistry can play an important role. If Warren is the only one who everybody likes, then that is hard to get past.

Also, tone and style "like Jerry" are not what made the combo of those guys and Jerry magical; they were merely incidental. The magic comes from where the players are able to go together, not who they might sound like. As much as I agree with some of the criticism of Warren in this thread, I have also heard him "get there" on a solo, so hope for the best in that regard; it could happen.

Also, the players are all trying to move forward and this means change, perhaps some of it in ways that we might not immediately embrace. It is what it is...
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there...
User avatar
Emoto
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:47 am
Location: SE Mass

Postby willmusic » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:17 am

I agree with you pappy. I've been trying to figure out the best way to put it but you hit the nail on the head.
User avatar
willmusic
wolf
wolf
 
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:39 am
Location: VA

Postby jonarobb » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:47 am

Emoto wrote:
jonarobb wrote:
BOUKINATOR wrote:I think it would be weird having someone like JK from DSO... does anyone really want to see them with someone trying to sound like Jerry? I don't.


YES!!!

I think the concensus is in that direction. I mean, c'mon, we're not talking Spinal Tap here. John from DSO for example has put his heart and soul into it. And he's good. That's what counts. You're not propping some schmuck up there and hoping to go back in time. Myself, and other old school heads are looking for the magic. And a big part of that magic comes with some attention to things like tone, and vocal stylizing, etc...

Barraco is a good example of someone who came out of the Dead cover scene and was embraced by the band. Howcome it can't be one of the many smokin' guitarists paying the same honor and respect to Garcia thoroughly with attention to detail?

Jeff Mattson, again, I'll say it, he's light years ahead of Warren Haynes, Jimmy Herring, Steve Kimock, Larry Campbell, and others, in his ability to cop Jerry's style. Neither one of them are necessarily better. It's just a fit.

I saw Kimock a few months back and they were doing Eyes of the World. I literally had to split. I couldn't believe how whack it sounded.

Mark Karan. Does he even know what reverb is?

Jimmy Herring. Those octave slides and chord comping sound much better in another band.

I'm not slamming these guys. I play myself and I know what it takes to stay on top of the game. And even though it's a done deal, and it was said on another forum I believe, with Warren Haynes, it sounds like The Allman Brothers covering the Grateful Dead. Especially now that Weir is playing with so much gain it's just too much distortion on stage.

I enjoy the discussion though and glad everyone is chiming in so thoughtfully and passionately.

I'll be there on the 13th.


We have to keep in mind that personal chemistry can play an important role. If Warren is the only one who everybody likes, then that is hard to get past.

Also, tone and style "like Jerry" are not what made the combo of those guys and Jerry magical; they were merely incidental. The magic comes from where the players are able to go together, not who they might sound like. As much as I agree with some of the criticism of Warren in this thread, I have also heard him "get there" on a solo, so hope for the best in that regard; it could happen.

Also, the players are all trying to move forward and this means change, perhaps some of it in ways that we might not immediately embrace. It is what it is...


I agree with you Emoto. I'm just whining. I'm sure you can understand. I have alot of love for Warren ultimately.
jonarobb
 

Postby Emoto » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:11 am

jonarobb wrote:
I agree with you Emoto. I'm just whining. I'm sure you can understand. I have alot of love for Warren ultimately.


I totally understand. :cool:
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there...
User avatar
Emoto
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:47 am
Location: SE Mass

Postby Sluggo714 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:39 am

Coupla things:

Warren would be OK but KIMOCK would be better. Just don't let Bobby sing any Jerry songs, OK>?!

And to the dude that claimed Obama was hanging out with terrorists: that was one of the most ignorant things I've seen in a LOOOONG while. Besides McCain's the one who's been hanging out with GW Bush, a bigger terrorist and murderer than Bin Laden will ever be!
Sluggo714
rukind?
rukind?
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:41 am

Postby Emoto » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:56 am

Maybe it is time to set down the pipe for a few minutes. :lol:
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there...
User avatar
Emoto
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:47 am
Location: SE Mass

Postby pappypgh » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:29 am

willmusic wrote:I agree with you pappy. I've been trying to figure out the best way to put it but you hit the nail on the head.


Thanks Will...

By the way, Sluggo - please....don't. I agree, but don't. 8)

Kimock, IMO - BLEW CHOW the last time I saw him play w/ Rat Dog (filling in for the then-ailing Karan). Almost like he couldn't keep up. He's a great player, but for a "Jerry-esque" dude (which I DON'T want), I'd prefer Barry Sless over ALL of them. KICK-ASS listener and has Garcia-chops GALORE....PLUS the pedal steel???? Sickleberry.

I'll be there WITH Warren and I'll be pumped. :cool:
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
User avatar
pappypgh
Senior Member
 
Posts: 707
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:11 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Postby mttourpro » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:58 am

My error, I meant Mark Deamoto from Juggling Suns--that dude can play some great geetar.
http://www.thecausejams.com

let your life proceed by its own design....
User avatar
mttourpro
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1257
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:45 pm
Location: pittsburgh, pa

Postby Jon S. » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:18 am

When I saw Kimock with RatDog last year his guitar playing was both awesome and matched perfectly with Bobbie's.

On a related vein, normally I would not repeat something like this but it is relevant to the topic at hand. On The Gear Page, someone posted this in response to my own thread on new Dead shows. Is there any truth to it?

sadly enough, though IMHO he is without a doubt the BEST fit for the Dead, I don't think you will ever see Phil Lesh and Steve Kimock share a stage again. After some serious disagreements between Steve and Jill (in the role of Yoko Ono) Lesh in the Fall of 1999; Jill apparently went on some wacko power trip relating to compensation for the Band (Phil and Friends) and also apparently tried to fire some of the support crew, and Steve (in solidarity) left the tour.

Very sad that they could not patch up their differences. The summer tour of 1999 had some incredible music with Steve both channeling Garcia AND putting his masterful spin on things. Though i first heard Steve with the Other Ones Tour in 1998, the summer of 1999 is when I first heard the seminal Kimock tune Tangled Hangars (Red Rocks 8/14/99). My jaw dropped; in fact when I chose myTGP name it was in tribute to Steve, because that is when I first experienced what he really was all about. Had I known that he posts here, I might not have chosen that name (LOL).

I saw 2 Ratdog shows last year when Steve filled in for the ailing Mark Karan and those shows were incredible as well. Normally I find Ratdog to be just ok; in fact they were the first Doggy shows I ever saw.
User avatar
Jon S.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm

Postby Jon S. » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:22 am

pappypgh wrote:Kimock, IMO - BLEW CHOW the last time I saw him play w/ Rat Dog (filling in for the then-ailing Karan). Almost like he couldn't keep up.

I hereby nominate this post as the poster child for, "One man gathers what another man spills." :-)
User avatar
Jon S.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm

Postby pappypgh » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:19 am

Jon S. wrote:
pappypgh wrote:Kimock, IMO - BLEW CHOW the last time I saw him play w/ Rat Dog (filling in for the then-ailing Karan). Almost like he couldn't keep up.

I hereby nominate this post as the poster child for, "One man gathers what another man spills." :-)


Yep - that's for sure. I agree, Jon, and that's why I put "IMO" in there. I understand that concept. However, I've seen Kimock WAIL. I KNOW he's a GREAT player. He most definitely had an "off-night" when I saw him. I would imagine that anyone who was truly listening to what was going on onstage that night would have agreed w/ me - including SK, himself. Warren came out for a couple of songs and "took over" - tried to trade licks w/ SK, but again - it just wasn't his night. I ain't puttin' the dude down. But everyone has their off-nights. I've seen ol' Jer screw the pooch on several occasions. :D
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
User avatar
pappypgh
Senior Member
 
Posts: 707
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:11 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Postby strumminsix » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:46 am

Jon S. wrote:When I saw Kimock with RatDog last year his guitar playing was both awesome and matched perfectly with Bobbie's.

On a related vein, normally I would not repeat something like this but it is relevant to the topic at hand. On The Gear Page, someone posted this in response to my own thread on new Dead shows. Is there any truth to it?

sadly enough, though IMHO he is without a doubt the BEST fit for the Dead, I don't think you will ever see Phil Lesh and Steve Kimock share a stage again. After some serious disagreements between Steve and Jill (in the role of Yoko Ono) Lesh in the Fall of 1999; Jill apparently went on some wacko power trip relating to compensation for the Band (Phil and Friends) and also apparently tried to fire some of the support crew, and Steve (in solidarity) left the tour.

Very sad that they could not patch up their differences. The summer tour of 1999 had some incredible music with Steve both channeling Garcia AND putting his masterful spin on things. Though i first heard Steve with the Other Ones Tour in 1998, the summer of 1999 is when I first heard the seminal Kimock tune Tangled Hangars (Red Rocks 8/14/99). My jaw dropped; in fact when I chose myTGP name it was in tribute to Steve, because that is when I first experienced what he really was all about. Had I known that he posts here, I might not have chosen that name (LOL).

I saw 2 Ratdog shows last year when Steve filled in for the ailing Mark Karan and those shows were incredible as well. Normally I find Ratdog to be just ok; in fact they were the first Doggy shows I ever saw.


I've heard and read similar things...

What is your handle on TGP?
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Postby Jon S. » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:58 am

Sent ya a PM.
User avatar
Jon S.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm

Postby krzykat » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:17 pm

mttourpro wrote:My error, I meant Mark Deamoto from Juggling Suns--that dude can play some great geetar.


That would be Mark Diomede He's good for sure, but juggling suns hardley ever plays Jerry anymore, Mark doesn't want to be know as a "Jerry" type player.

BUT . . . i did hear that tix go on sale Sat morning!!!
Image
User avatar
krzykat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 886
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:21 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Grateful Dead Tour Info

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest