Paging Waldo and Brad

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Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby Kennay » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:27 pm

I was going to PM you but I thought this information would be valuable to all. In your humble opinions what envelope filter has the closest circuit or closest sound to that of the Mutron III ? I sure wish I`d bought that clone of yours, Mike. Anyway, Q-tron? Maxon? Hartman? Emma? WMD Fatman? Something else????
As always thank you for all of the information you`ve shared here.
Kennay
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:47 pm

http://www.mu-tron.org/
From their site -
If you want the original sound and circuitry of the Mu-Tron III, please buy either a used vintage original Mu-Tron III (not +) or better yet, my new products:

The Q-Tron or Q-Tron+ by Electro-Harmonix

You will get a better product and support the original inventor.
Electro Harmonix, where history, quality and innovation collide. Electro Harmonix features the latest productions of the Mu-Tron legacy, the Q-Tron. For more than 30 years, they've been inspiring musicians with groundbreaking effect pedals, vacuum tubes and accessories.

:D
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad RE:Envelope filters

Postby gr8fullfred » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:16 pm

I use a Boss FT-2 it sounds really good with a little tweaking of the knobs. Can find them for 75 bucks or so. Reliable, easy to power up with out the batteries, blah blah blah.

I have a vintage Mutron III and I use the FT-2 (I have two of the FT-2s)

And to a certain extent, it ain't the box or the guitar, or the amp or whatever. Its what you can do with what you have.

Once again just my .02
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:24 pm

Haven't gotten to spend much time with one, or in my own rig, but possibly the Moog LP if money is no object. Oh wait, I'm not Brad or Mike- disregard! :D

FWIW , I would be paging "drkstrcrshes" on this question, as he has probably tried very nearly literally, ALL of them.
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby Chuckles » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:43 pm

I don't know that anyone can comment on the Hartman yet. I just emailed them today wondering where my order was and they said they had a backup due to lack of cases to ship them, but they should go out in the next couple of days.
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby JonnyBoy » Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:22 am

You can achieve a near perfect Jerry envelope tone with a Qtron+. GFRED is right, it is an instrument in itself, you have to learn it and give it time. I have heard horrible envelope tone from a Qtron and I have heard perfect Jerry, its not the pedal. I have always played an envelope filter, prefer it over a wha, I am kinda lazy like Jerry I guess, I like a wha for the Playin' In The Band tone/sound of '72, that's about it. I believe the question is how to sound closest to Jerry's MuIII rather than what is the most user friendly or versatile? If that is the deal, a Qtron+ is the easiest and cheapest way to get there, and it is straight forward IMO.

I am very interested in Chuck's new gizmo......need a box to ship? Sounds kinda lame to me, just send me the pedal and send the box later in case i need to auction it, not my fault you cant keep supplies on hand and ordered properly, keep your customers happy. You've been waiting a while.

I'm not Waldo or Brad either, but sometimes when I am alone I will pretend I am...... :-)
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby tcsned » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:16 am

Chuckles wrote:I don't know that anyone can comment on the Hartman yet. I just emailed them today wondering where my order was and they said they had a backup due to lack of cases to ship them, but they should go out in the next couple of days.

lol - that sounds a lot like "it's on backorder excuse that I used to hear at the music store all the time - usually meant we screwed up your order and don't want to admit it. Hope it arrives soon and is as awesome as the reviews!
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby tigerstrat » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:14 am

tcsned wrote:
Chuckles wrote:I don't know that anyone can comment on the Hartman yet. I just emailed them today wondering where my order was and they said they had a backup due to lack of cases to ship them, but they should go out in the next couple of days.

lol - that sounds a lot like "it's on backorder excuse that I used to hear at the music store all the time - usually meant we screwed up your order and don't want to admit it. Hope it arrives soon and is as awesome as the reviews!


it just means they have production delays (which they specified) or just cannot produce them fast enough to fill all the pre-orders they have gotten. One seller will invariably be pissed that another seller got his order first.
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby Pete B. » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:36 pm

Kennay wrote:I was going to PM you but I thought this information would be valuable to all. In your humble opinions what envelope filter has the closest circuit or closest sound to that of the Mutron III ? I sure wish I`d bought that clone of yours, Mike. Anyway, Q-tron? Maxon? Hartman? Emma? WMD Fatman? Something else????
As always thank you for all of the information you`ve shared here.


Just curious...
Why don't you just buy a MuTron III ???
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:39 pm

I'm really no wiz on that. I've owned 4 or 5 MuTron III's over the years. Back in the '80s I could find them for $40 or $50 quite easily. Eventually I sold them and then two died and I gave them away. Yeah, I know... DOH!!! Each of them sounded quite different and only 1 or 2 were killer. In more recent years I found the big box Q-Tron to be really, really good. Mike Beigel designed it for EH, so you gotta put some credit there. I still have mine and it's really good. Better than some of the real Mutron III's I've owned or heard, but not quite as magic as the best MuTron's. Recently I've grabbed up two of the original, larger Mini Q-Trons. They don't do the downward "Dancin in the Streets" effect, but for the upward Shakedown/Estimated/Fire effect, I really like it a lot. It even runs on 9v, which surprises me that it works as well as it does. These are pretty cheap out there.

Pete B turned me on to the Emma Discombobulator a few years ago, and that seemed like a real good candidate. I'm very interested in the new EH Enigma bass enevelope filter. It has lots of parameter control, and I hear it's good, but haven't tried it yet. Haven't heard the Hartman either. I can never tell unless I'm the one picking the strings and getting the feel of it.

I think the most important thing is the "stop" frequency. That's the highest frequency that the swept envelope will reach. I find that this is what varies the most from Tron to Tron, and finding just the right stop frequency puts the best "voice" on the sound. Jerry clearly selected a pedal that perfectly nailed it for him. At some point I'm gonna figure out which resistor helps determine this in the Q-Tron and Mutron so we can tweak and refine the sound. What's interesting about the new Enigma pedal is that there's a start and stop knob so you can dial that in right there. That factor alone has me VERY interested.

Brad
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby mijknahs » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:13 pm

Mike Beigel and Richard Lingenberg designed the new Enigma by EH and Richard (who worked on my Mutron III) said he thinks the Enigma is the best so far for the lower setting (Estimated/Shakedown). He also said the Mini Q-Tron is very good (and different than the regular Q-Tron). I have a Mutron and a Q-Tron. I don't use the Q-Tron much since I got my Mutron tuned up by Richard Lingenberg. I'd also love to try out an Enigma.

Jim
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:04 pm

... and it's just like any other day that's ever been...
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby JonnyBoy » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:39 pm

Yes Jim, the Enigma is quite a Filter processor, one of the most versatile too. The EHX family has a myriad of different options, from a cheap nano to a high dollar Bi filter. I have found a little compression/limiting and EQ helps with getting too high of peaks and too low of valleys, which may or may not be some of the processing done in a lot of these more advanced boxes to rein in the vintage issues. The more you can shape things usually the better, if you stay on track... The trick is not to color the tone too much, Jerry ran things pretty simply.
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby Kennay » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:38 am

Pete B. wrote:Just curious...
Why don't you just buy a MuTron III ???


I might do that. I`m just hesitant to spend $500 if I can get the same sound for half that. I have a Q-tron +. I can get it close and it sounds pretty good. But it`s still a bit different to my ear.
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Re: Paging Waldo and Brad

Postby hogan » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:51 am

Kennay wrote:
Pete B. wrote:Just curious...
Why don't you just buy a MuTron III ???


I might do that. I`m just hesitant to spend $500 if I can get the same sound for half that. I have a Q-tron +. I can get it close and it sounds pretty good. But it`s still a bit different to my ear.


Jerry's was different from era to era. The raw almost overdriven quack of spring '78. The slow quack of the early 80's and the more liquid refined tone of the mid/late 80's and 90's. Vintage IIIs are cool if you happen into one on the cheap but there are a few current offerings mentioned above that get it done for way less the price and hassles of a old one. I'd stay w/ the Q and tweak it some more and realize that it's probably never going to be just like you hear on recordings, even if you were using Garcia's III.
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