Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Chat about Equipment Info

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby caspersvapors » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:09 pm

mijknahs wrote:http://ia311216.us.archive.org/3/items/gd1983-05-15.fob.sonyecm220t.keshavan.miller.fix.94516.sbeok.flac16/gd83-05-15d1t07_64kb.mp3

Check out his Althea and listen to the tone of the solos. I believe this to be about the "dirtiest" clean tone of the 80's. I believe this tone to be the MC2300 pushing the JBL E120's "too hard". I don't think this is any kind of pedal overdrive. It may be the Twin driving the Mac a little more than 1982 or even 1984. I love this tone though.

Jim



I am a hardcore Althea fan and 83 has a few of the best, and Ive also really loved Jerrys cleans during this time when he was playing well.
Image
User avatar
caspersvapors
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1262
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:58 pm

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby caspersvapors » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:24 pm

the althea tone and the tone in the might as well clip are totally different.

the might as well clip definitely has some drive, theres nothing clean about it. You can see Jerry very obviously hit a switch that kicks in the overdrive. Im pretty sure that switch is just engaging the effects loop. Jerry probably had his od-1 on or something
Last edited by caspersvapors on Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
caspersvapors
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1262
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:58 pm

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby mijknahs » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:27 pm

I think the purpose of the Might as Well clip was to show some "heavy clean" tone on the rest of the song before the effect distortion on the solo.
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1518
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby caspersvapors » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:33 pm

oops

reading > me
Image
User avatar
caspersvapors
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1262
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:58 pm

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby waldo041 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:59 am

JonnyBoy wrote:How about a booster after the preamp and then into the mac? just a guess... :roll:


and a good one! i have been in this spot for a couple months now, but not with a booster!



peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2830
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby seamones » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:50 am

Hey Waldo (or anyone else for that matter):

Descriptions like this:

"here's another dirty example from this same show. in the beginning you see him hit the floor pedal turning the dist/overdrive on and the delay on, but the effects loop on the guitar is not on, and he is really dirty already. at the solo (2:31) you see him flip the guitar effects loop switch and then it's just sit back and enjoy. at 2:43 he kicks the delay off."

....are very interesting and helpful. Comments on what Jer is doing at certain points with the video evidence is fantastic. Thank you. Please provide more of this type of commentary!
seamones
Rosemary
Rosemary
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:24 am

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby mijknahs » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:03 am

That would be a cool DVD audio "option"! Switch to "Gear Head" audio commentary option for a step by step explanation of everything going on gear and equipment related.

"...and here comes Steve Parish to switch out a blown JBL from Jerry's 4x12" cab... notice how he can replace speakers while Jerry is still playing be cause each speaker is connected to the MC2300 separately..."
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1518
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby JonnyBoy » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:44 pm

If we are eliminating a pedal, a booster, and front end tube clipping we must be dealing with the guitar and rig alone. Please don't tell me this is mutron funny business :smile: . My last guess would be that he is clipping the mac and the fender. As loud as he is Jim may be right, along with strummin too that the clipping doesn't stop there, the speakers and mic are taking some abuse too. Could he be clipping the preamp in the guitar??? guess #2
http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
User avatar
JonnyBoy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 am
Location: the south swamps

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby JonnyBoy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:37 am

Taking a trip down memory lane: Waldo's and Jim's posts... It is the mac clipping but I still haven't got that kind of clipping like the examples above, from the info due to the fact i am not pushing the signal hard enough into the amp. I still wonder if there is a little more to it like the mics limits, speakers, etc... That is OD distorted relative to a pristine twin guitar tone, but I am not saying he is using an OD to get it. Just wondering what I can do to push a 50 watt mac to get that hair on its own. Could The booster after the pre help that or would that be too variable to measure and damage the amp? I am sick of buying OD's only to sell them trying to obtain a good OD tone like that. I have settled lately for gain stage clipping, but I am seeing that you are right, its not exactly the same no matter how you play with the EQ. I think I am getting closer here, the info is starting to make more sense. :smile: I have to go to my rehearsal space to play with it, I forgot all my guitar cables there. I am wondering how loud this will be...

http://www.rukind.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=309&t=6896&p=69668&hilit=jerrys+clean+clipping#wrap
http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
User avatar
JonnyBoy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 am
Location: the south swamps

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby waldo041 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:00 am

could be mac clipping, but that can take some power to do, and i have to believe that would take you out of the realm of jerry's known volume settings. remember that jerry's twin volume is at roughly 4 1/2 to 5 1/2, and he stated to a friend, anything more and your clipping the mac. jerry's mc2300 volume was seen at 11 - 11:30. with those settings, hard to believe he was clipping the mac.

and to throw another monkey wrench in this, this althea 1983 clip is 5-15-1983. he used the mc2500 from the end of 82 to the fall of 83, so this clip is an mc2500 which does have the sentry monitor as well as the POWER GUARD. although jerry's may or may not of have either or both.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2830
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby mijknahs » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:51 am

Last night at the gig, I was playing my SMS Classic into my MC2120 (with power guard off). It had that loud, mid-80's JGB sound and the red (limit) light on the Mac was going off on just about every note. Not sure what this means exactly but that's what I observed.

Johnny Boy - It is easy to get my MC50 into clipping/distortion with normal amp settings. Anything past 12:00 on the Mac seems to get pretty dirty (and the cones are popping out).

Jim
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1518
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby waldo041 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:33 am

mijknahs wrote:Last night at the gig, I was playing my SMS Classic into my MC2120 (with power guard off). It had that loud, mid-80's JGB sound and the red (limit) light on the Mac was going off on just about every note. Not sure what this means exactly but that's what I observed.


i looked into the 2120, actually almost bought one. it is not very similiar to the topology of the mc50, mc250, mc2100 mc2300 etc.. a lot more going on in it. but i am interested in hearing what you sms settings were, including the pad pot in back, as well as what level you had the mc2120 and it's input sensitivity setting?

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2830
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby playingdead » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:04 am

This is purely anecdotal, but back when I had a preamp that was very adjustable (Egnater M4) both with the gain and preamp output level settable on the modules (before the master volume on the preamp itself), I discovered that if I used my bridge Super II humbucker dimed and set the preamp so I had the characteristic breakup you'd hear when Garcia would kick off Might as Well or Promised Land, when I went to the single coil middle Super II, I'd have that nice Jerry tone with just enough dirt. This also works on my current setup; it's how I set up my basic tone. Note that it was not necessarily just overdriving the first tube, as Waldo noted.

So, my estimation is he'd dime his guitar volume and go to the humbucker on Might as Well, and get that "overdrive" without kicking in any additional pedals, regardless of where it was coming from in his setup (power amp, preamp, etc.). And I'd further guess that there's a sweet spot on his Twin's volume that makes that happen into the Mac. Then he could use his picking hand and guitar volume to dial in or out the dirt he wanted in a very expressive way.

I'm wondering if he got the same sort of drive effect with the Trio, but can't bear listening through the recordings from that particular era ... I know from experience it's very difficult to get any dirt straight into the Trio's Clean channel.
User avatar
playingdead
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:55 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby jdsmodulus » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:15 am

I can say for me, using the Trio I dont get any dirt like 83 from the clean channel alone. I use an Ibanez with the preamp so sometimes I can "fake" it by switching that on for a solo. My guitar has no OBEL but it works sorta like that. Otherwise Im purely going for the OD2. I dont use either of the other 2 channels.
jdsmodulus
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:12 pm

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby mijknahs » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:25 am

waldo041 wrote:i looked into the 2120, actually almost bought one. it is not very similiar to the topology of the mc50, mc250, mc2100 mc2300 etc.. a lot more going on in it. but i am interested in hearing what you sms settings were, including the pad pot in back, as well as what level you had the mc2120 and it's input sensitivity setting?

peace,
waldo


The MC2120 sounds like "family" along with the other Macs I have (MC50, MC2300) and have had (MC2100). Still sounds uniquely like a Mac. I actually sold my MC2100 and kept the MC2120 (when those were the only 2 I had) because the 2120 sounded better.

The SMS settings were Volume - 1 o'clock, bright switch normal (middle), Treble - all the way up, Mid - straight up 12:00, Bass - off. Pad knob on back all the way up. Sensitivity setting on the 2120 on the "louder" setting (I forgot the number but the one which doesn't pad the input).

The tone wasn't as "heavy" as some examples (not quite like that 83 Althea) but it had slight "hair" throughout. It was loud though and reminded me of those early 80's JGB shows when Jerry was loud and in your face with that "attitude".

Jim

Jim
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1518
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PreviousNext

Return to Grateful Dead Equipment Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest