Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Chat about Equipment Info

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby JonnyBoy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:47 am

mijknahs wrote:Johnny Boy - It is easy to get my MC50 into clipping/distortion with normal amp settings. Anything past 12:00 on the Mac seems to get pretty dirty (and the cones are popping out).

Jim


You can prolly guess I have pushed the Mc50 to some brinks, but I don't get that type of distortion. But you are right, the MC50 does clip rather easily, and it sounds familiar to Jerry at a reasonable volume. I think you were on the right track mentioning the speakers along with the amp. And Like strum mentioned, the mic too can burn a bit all layering this sound. This does not seem to be very straight forward Mac clipping according to my equip, but who knows. I would describe the mac clip like a "buzz" rather than a "crunch". But That buzz is a layer of his overall tone for sure. I can see/hear how that is a part of his cleaner tones in other years, but this song in particular seems way crunchier without a OD pedal and preamp clipping. interesting and fun discussion.
http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
User avatar
JonnyBoy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 am
Location: the south swamps

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby mijknahs » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:12 pm

I really don't think the mic is clipping at all. Those Sennheiser 421 can take a lot of volume. I believe you will hear "that sound" on the stage as well as through the PA although the on stage tone won't be colored by the mic and PA.

You want to find the level that the MC50 only slightly gets dirty where it will clean up if you back off some guitar volume.
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby waldo041 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:15 pm

hey jim, where was the mc2120 volume setting at?

the manual says that the limit lamps light up generally indicating the input is overloaded.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby mijknahs » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:28 pm

The 2120 volume was about 10:00 or 11:00 o'clock. My guitar volume was at 1/2 way or slightly higher.
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby JonnyBoy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:08 pm

You guys are right, that MC250 really gets gritty with some power in it. I actually got some gothic distortion with the booster between the pre and Mac. You are right Jim, it is very crunchy set just right. The booster helped get it at a lower volume, something to look into. It was pretty damn loud otherwise. I see now what you all mean. I guess I just never pushed it that hard before, I must have been doing something wrong before. Super Cool, thanks for posting.... :smile:
http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
User avatar
JonnyBoy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 am
Location: the south swamps

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby waldo041 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:33 pm

JonnyBoy wrote:You guys are right, that MC250 really gets gritty with some power in it. I actually got some gothic distortion with the booster between the pre and Mac. You are right Jim, it is very crunchy set just right. The booster helped get it at a lower volume, something to look into. It was pretty damn loud otherwise. I see now what you all mean. I guess I just never pushed it that hard before, I must have been doing something wrong before. Super Cool, thanks for posting.... :smile:



jboy,

where is your mc250 volume at to achieve this?

inbetween the twin and mac is where we are already looking :lol: , but a booster is not the answer. this is the position where some combo amps effects loop are inserted. nothing new there, but finding the correct piece is.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby JonnyBoy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:58 pm

Some weird things happened tonight. I didn't want to say at first because I don't know why this would happen. but for your queston, If it had numbers I had the mac at 7-8 sometimes about 6 out of 10. adding the booster added hard core distortion. I have never heard it get that dirty before. I remember going straight into the mac with my guitar and Lpb1 first day I had it with no preamp and it clipped buzzy like. but With the twin and boost it was a monster. You really need to play with that option. I could put the mac at 5 or so and achieve this too, but slightly different. I think its mostly input stage distortion. I didn't have a whole lot of time to mess around. I also ran my delay and reverb in between the mac and twin for the first time. Doing this added more distortion to the mac from the twin than usual, I had a real gritty sound tonight. The verb and delay was behaving way different than usual (usually in front of pre), almost analog sounding. this was without the booster while I was rehearsing. Just adding something between the two changed the Macs behavior significantly towards the clipping end. It was a rocktron reverb and delay pedal cyborg. Don't ask me why this happened, but it did for sure. It was more gritty compared to putting a twin to mac alone at 5-6 on twin and 7-8 on mac. I had my twin on about 3-4 with the verb and delay pedal in between and the amp about 7. Ahh a bunch new doors are opened here....
http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
User avatar
JonnyBoy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 am
Location: the south swamps

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby Pete B. » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:28 am

I am listening to the Althea in the original post...
The first couple solo's sound like classic Guitar into a Twin Reverb Amplifier tone. That's really exactly what those amps sound like (to me) (starting at 1:15-ish, and 2:25). 'Love the 'verb.
You can hear some nice tube-shimmer on the early solo's... check the solo starting 4:57.
When he goes off on the harder strumming solo'ing he like ramps it up in levels (starting 6:10-ish). Sounds great!
It sounds like he turns on a distortion pedal (or whatever it is if you guys already know) at exactly 6:34, and then get's it working right at approx 6:53.
Then on to the strum solo.
That's just my take having just listened to it. I'm probably wrong but I enjoyed the soloing, (and the input from the guys in the know on the other gear specifics).
Funn stuff!
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:37 am

Pete B. wrote:I am listening to the Althea in the original post...
The first couple solo's sound like classic Guitar into a Twin Reverb Amplifier tone. That's really exactly what those amps sound like (to me) (starting at 1:15-ish, and 2:25). 'Love the 'verb.
You can hear some nice tube-shimmer on the early solo's... check the solo starting 4:57.
When he goes off on the harder strumming solo'ing he like ramps it up in levels (starting 6:10-ish). Sounds great!
It sounds like he turns on a distortion pedal (or whatever it is if you guys already know) at exactly 6:34, and then get's it working right at approx 6:53.
Then on to the strum solo.
That's just my take having just listened to it. I'm probably wrong but I enjoyed the soloing, (and the input from the guys in the know on the other gear specifics).
Funn stuff!

I'm inclined to agree that it just sounds like good ol' 80's Jerry to me, in all of these examples. I don't hear what's supposed to be different.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
User avatar
tigerstrat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:20 pm
Location: Portland,OR

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby mijknahs » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:47 am

Not sure how important or critical this is but I was told that Jerry's amp had all the pots changed out to higher quality Allen Bradley pots and the settings would not really match the original settings (but 10 is still 10 and 0 is still 0). Maybe the middle settings would not quite match the stock pot settings?

Keep listening to more 1983 and please see if you can find more examples of "heavy" clean tone (kinda distorted but not an effect or pedal).

Thanks,
Jim
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby JonnyBoy » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:34 pm

tigerstrat wrote:
Pete B. wrote:I am listening to the Althea in the original post...
The first couple solo's sound like classic Guitar into a Twin Reverb Amplifier tone. That's really exactly what those amps sound like (to me) (starting at 1:15-ish, and 2:25). 'Love the 'verb.
You can hear some nice tube-shimmer on the early solo's... check the solo starting 4:57.
When he goes off on the harder strumming solo'ing he like ramps it up in levels (starting 6:10-ish). Sounds great!
It sounds like he turns on a distortion pedal (or whatever it is if you guys already know) at exactly 6:34, and then get's it working right at approx 6:53.
Then on to the strum solo.
That's just my take having just listened to it. I'm probably wrong but I enjoyed the soloing, (and the input from the guys in the know on the other gear specifics).
Funn stuff!

I'm inclined to agree that it just sounds like good ol' 80's Jerry to me, in all of these examples. I don't hear what's supposed to be different.




True a lot of shows have similar dirty/cleaner tones, but I was inclined to believe tube guitar clipping up till last night. Way interesting clipping tone coming off that mac. I have yet to get it to do that before. It was from putting something between the pre and mac especially. It is its own unique OD sound, and I was able to really get it dirty like never before, not just a buzz but a full on marshall stack distortion. Now I think I understand what waldo, jim and brad are getting at. I usually got such a slight/modest clipping I couldn't understand the thicker crunch he's getting.
http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
User avatar
JonnyBoy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 am
Location: the south swamps

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby mijknahs » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:38 pm

I don't consider the "heavy" clean tone I'm talking about a "thicker crunch". It's still on the mild side as far as crunch sounds go (definitely not Marshall Stack type). Any truly heavy crunch you hear is from the distortion pedal.

-Jim
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby JonnyBoy » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:55 pm

mijknahs wrote:I don't consider the "heavy" clean tone I'm talking about a "thicker crunch". It's still on the mild side as far as crunch sounds go (definitely not Marshall Stack type). Any truly heavy crunch you hear is from the distortion pedal.

-Jim



I know, I was only expressing how much is actually possible with what I did specifically last night. Really surprising. I know Jerry wasn't going for that. I cant get the mac to do what I did last night, no matter how hard I push the twin alone into the mac, is the point i guess. Just putting the reverb pedal between the pre and amp made a significant difference in clipping let alone the booster. There is something to Waldo's observation.
http://otislotus.net/ Finally finished our new site...
User avatar
JonnyBoy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 am
Location: the south swamps

Re: Jerry's heavy "clean" tone 1983

Postby mijknahs » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:00 pm

You can get an MC50 to clip pretty hard if you have your guitar all the way up, the Twin up around 6 and the MC50 past half way.
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Previous

Return to Grateful Dead Equipment Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests

cron