Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

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Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby unnbrokenchain » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:17 am

I'd like to know if anyone uses any kind of digital delay and reverb pedals in order to simulate Jerry's later Lexicon rack units? It would be very impractical for me to dish out over 600$ for these 25 year old rack units. Stu Allen I know recreates the lexicon sounds with a pedalboard which mostly consist of Boss pedals.




, thanks
Last edited by unnbrokenchain on Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby erock » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:21 am

Not sure about Delay, but the digitech rv-7 is licensed from lexicon and is one hell of a reverb pedal.

I have a/b it against the reverb in my twin, and it is pretty spot on. You can also get a little nutty with the reversed reverb.
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby unnbrokenchain » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:27 am

I have a 1972 bandmaster with a spring reverb. What I'm looking for is a pure digital sounding reverb and delay to use not all the time, but for solos. I'd like to get the sounds he used to get for the solos in the later Terrapins, knockin' on Heavens door and stuff like that where it was a mix of both the delay unit and digital unit. The spring reverb I use for my main channel 100 percent of the time.
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby erock » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:47 am

unnbrokenchain wrote:I have a 1972 bandmaster with a spring reverb. What I'm looking for is a pure digital sounding reverb and delay to use not all the time, but for solos. I'd like to get the sounds he used to get for the solos in the later Terrapins, knockin' on Heavens door and stuff like that where it was a mix of both the delay unit and digital unit. The spring reverb I use for my main channel 100 percent of the time.


well check out that pedal anyway, there are other reverbs on it. modulated is the first one that pops in my head. I got it because i was using an amp that didn't have a reverb in it. so i wanted a good spring one.

here are the reverb types
* Room – Fast decaying reverb; great for a touch of ambience
* Plate – Renowned studio reverb heard on classic recordings
* Reverse – Reverb in reverse; gradually crescendos to full volume
* Modulated – Lush, modulating, reverb ideal for chords
* Gated – Unique reverb with abrupt decay; good for percussive playing
* Hall – Large, encompassing reverb with warm decay
* Spring – Classic “surf” reverb; great for Rockabilly too!


you could easily find a youtube on it. Just figured since it is using the reverb licensed from lexicon it might be a good fit
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby waldo041 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:24 am

when did jerry use a digital reverb unit in his analog signal? imho, it always was a spring reverb even with the trio. the lexicon would have been used midi side not the analog side. could you show me where he is using the lexicon reverb and where it is in the rig?

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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby unnbrokenchain » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:56 am

The Lexicon units were only used for the midi signal? hmm. I always thought the PCM 60 and 70 were paired together which replaced the MXR delay.

Specific example is in the "terrapin Station" from 07/04/1989. In the Lady with a fan sequence goes < "no effects solo<turns on OBEL<realizes Distortion is on<turns it off<presses some more pedals<then I can hear some delay smoothed out with some different reverb. I know delay adds a subtle reverb effect to it, but he had the two lexicon units, so I put the two together. This is also before Rosebud, so you can rule out fulltime midi.

If the lexicon units were only used for midi. Then did they appear on stage the SAME night the black strat "space" stuff . Just curious.

This is also straight off Dozin.com under guitar history:

Effects used during the early '70's were limited mostly to the Vox wah-wah pedal being occasionally used.
By the late '70's, he was using the Mutron envelope filter (which was used for Estimated, Shakedown, etc.), and he continued to use it until the very end. A Mutron Octive Divider, MXR Distortion +, Phase 100 and Analog Delay.
By the late '80's, his effects consisted of mostly Boss effects: Octave Divider, Turbo Overdrive, Super Overdrive, EQ's, etc. in two effects loops. He also used some extremely expensive Lexicons a PCM-42 or PCM-60, with a PCM-70) reverb/delay units in the rack behind him; these are studio units.

You can clearly see the two units behind him from the DVD footage.

Another good example is from 03/15/1990 Terrapin. The solo and OBEL switching is successfully done, and you can hear what he intended to do from 07/04/1990. For 1990 though, you just can't see the actual footage. This is also when he had Rosebud doing some midi stuff in the second verse.
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby waldo041 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:57 pm

unnbrokenchain wrote:The Lexicon units were only used for the midi signal? hmm. I always thought the PCM 60 and 70 were paired together which replaced the MXR delay.

Specific example is in the "terrapin Station" from 07/04/1989. In the Lady with a fan sequence goes < "no effects solo<turns on OBEL<realizes Distortion is on<turns it off<presses some more pedals<then I can hear some delay smoothed out with some different reverb. I know delay adds a subtle reverb effect to it, but he had the two lexicon units, so I put the two together. This is also before Rosebud, so you can rule out fulltime midi.

If the lexicon units were only used for midi. Then did they appear on stage the SAME night the black strat "space" stuff . Just curious.

This is also straight off Dozin.com under guitar history:

Effects used during the early '70's were limited mostly to the Vox wah-wah pedal being occasionally used.
By the late '70's, he was using the Mutron envelope filter (which was used for Estimated, Shakedown, etc.), and he continued to use it until the very end. A Mutron Octive Divider, MXR Distortion +, Phase 100 and Analog Delay.
By the late '80's, his effects consisted of mostly Boss effects: Octave Divider, Turbo Overdrive, Super Overdrive, EQ's, etc. in two effects loops. He also used some extremely expensive Lexicons a PCM-42 or PCM-60, with a PCM-70) reverb/delay units in the rack behind him; these are studio units.

You can clearly see the two units behind him from the DVD footage.

Another good example is from 03/15/1990 Terrapin. The solo and OBEL switching is successfully done, and you can hear what he intended to do from 07/04/1990. For 1990 though, you just can't see the actual footage. This is also when he had Rosebud doing some midi stuff in the second verse.


he used the ada 2fx for delay after the mxr analog delay. i'm not saying he didn't use the lexicons, i am just saying they were not in his analog rig. he started using the 2fx delay in the 80's and had the mix and multiplier remoted to 2 ernie ball pedals. and not quite sure about the midi trial days when he would use the black strat during space, but could be when they first appear. his midi rack was not the same rack as his analog rack.

here you can see the ada 2fx top rack shelf space, mxr pitch transposer the next 3 spaces, and then the audio switcher. with the 2 effects unit shelves underneath.

Image

the rack on top of all that is his midi rack.

peace,
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby jdsmodulus » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:33 pm

I have seen some pics of Jers rig that were during these experimental times where you will see a wide variety of rack effects. I couldnt say whether he used Lexicon. Bob on the other hand, went through many of the PCM units over the years. The thing to think about is Bob Bralove's racks, he always used Lexicon products but that was mostly for the Keys. Even Healy had rack units that were at one time rumored to be controlling Jerrys overall tone. This has not been confirmed but if you look at pics of Healys racks, you will see the ADA2fx, among other units that Jerry was using. This is really more towards the thinking that the whole band used, that if a unit was good sounding and worked well the bought them up and used them where they thought it was a good fit. Sorry for the ramble, Im not sure how this helps you in your search for reverb. Carry on! :lol:
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby unnbrokenchain » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Cool stuff Waldo.

I'm going to look up stuff about the Boss RV-5 and the Digitech RV-7, mostly because they both have two inputs, one for my guitar signal and one for my midi signal. Right now I'm leaning towards the RV-7, the reverse is pretty cool.
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby tcsned » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:13 pm

I use a Lexicon MPX G-2 - the guitar multi-effect unit they made in the earlier part of the century. I don't think it's quite on par with the dedicated delays but pretty good. Plus all the other bells and whistles. The envelope filter I found didn't cut it but I dig most of the others it has. I've seen them on eBay for under $400. I have a backup I might part with. I found that I don't use a lot of effects besides overdrive, mutron, delay, and talkbox. For a stompbox, I really dig the T-Rex Replica. If I wind up ditching the rack unit I'm getting one of those.
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oops! wrong t-rex
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby JonnyBoy » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:48 am

If I had to do it over a good tap analog delay is where I would be. I didn't dislike the boss RV-5 but there was something about it that didn't make me go nuts. I really liked the spring reverb 65 reverb boss pedal, but that's a one trick pony. With the reverb and delay pedals I have now, they are the digital stuff and wind up using the modeled analog versions anyway, and we all know as good as they can get, they're never as good as the real thing unless you want to shell out a lot of money. I use the Rocktron midi delay and midi reverb pedals and find them adequate for my humble performances and they are cheap. I would not say they are spectacular.

Waldo- did you ever enjoy the Biyang analog delay/reverb pedal?
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby waldo041 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:58 am

JonnyBoy wrote:Waldo- did you ever enjoy the Biyang analog delay/reverb pedal?



it is in the chain still, and does what it does very nicely!

peace,
waldo
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Re: Pedal Substitute for Lexicon Rack Units

Postby tigerstrat » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:56 am

Latest experiment is switching from my 70's Ibanez AD80 Analog Delay (one of the juiciest analog echoes ever) to my old mid-80's Ibanez DML20 Digital Modulation Delay (fairly dry and digital but decent and versatile), with delay time remoted to an EB Volume. Recently modded the EB with a 100k wah pot, which seems to use the throw on this pedal perfectly.

I noticed Robert Keeley is calling expression-controlled time "glide tempo" as opposed to tap tempo. If I was starting from scratch, I'd be tempted to check out Keeley's Ibanez AD9 w/ expression mods.

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