Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

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Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby DeadAheadNH » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:34 am

Hi all,

Any of you guys fiddle with an HR Deville?? I have a US 4x10 model that I got used and am eager to see what we can do with it.
Some ideas:

TUBES:
I was thinking of replacing the OEM with these ...
Winged "C" (SED) 6L6GC
Tung-Sol 12AX7

SPEAKERS:
I've got the OEM in there now and CAN NOT afford 4 x $100+ speakers (Webers, tone tubbies, jbl) .... any ideas
(Remember they're 4 x 10" speakers)

MODS:
Any MUST HAVE mods that really knocked your socks off??
Any idiot proofed mods???
Power supply???
Reverb mod???

I'm playing a SSS Strat w/OBEL with analog effects all TB'd. Lastly ... the rig should tonally compliment Super2 Stacked Tribute/Vibrolux/Mac/HT Cab setup.
I generally play only the clean channel and I do the Bobby role in the band :cool:
This amp is plenty loud ... just looking for more sparkle.

Thanx for any and all suggestions, recommendations, and opinions on this project. I'm curious to see what you guys have done with this type of rig.
marcus
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby strumminsix » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:54 am

I don't like winged C poweramp tubes.

What ohm speakers? If 8, what about:
http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/ ... sku=660019
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby waldo041 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:57 am

there is a 220k resistor(r105) to ground hanging off the wiper of the BASS pot in the tone stack, REMOVE it! :cool:

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby FretWilkes » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:07 am

waldo041 wrote:there is a 220k resistor(r105) to ground hanging off the wiper of the BASS pot in the tone stack, REMOVE it! :cool:

peace,
waldo


Hi Waldo,

I have a HR Deluxe which has the same resistor. What exactly does removing it do? I run the bass very low on my amp.
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby waldo041 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:31 am

i actually did this "waldo mod" in my HRdx long ago, and it gets rid of all that unwanted bass! allowed me to actually use the bass control of that amp. 8)

removing it means , eliminate it, snip the ends of the resistor or desolder it. NO jumper needed.

peace,
waldo
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby JonnyBoy » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:38 am

its like a treble bleed but it is bleeding the treble to ground rather than allowing it to pass through the signal?
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby DeadAheadNH » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:39 am

waldo041 wrote:i actually did this "waldo mod" in my HRdx long ago, and it gets rid of all that unwanted bass! allowed me to actually use the bass control of that amp. 8)

removing it means , eliminate it, snip the ends of the resistor or desolder it. NO jumper needed.

peace,
waldo


hi .... do I need to discharge the caps for this or is it safe to just snip ????
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby DeadAheadNH » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:41 am

also ...

Strummin ... do you like the JJ's ??? The speakers are 8ohm (4-10" Special Design Eminence® 8 ohm, 30 watt Speakers)
Waldo ... thanx for the tip !! btw ... kenny's tribute 2.0 is just about done!!! We'll need a WALDO BUFFER sponsorship banner :peas:
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby waldo041 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:27 am

marcuskeyser wrote:do I need to discharge the caps for this or is it safe to just snip ????


you should always get into the practice of draining the filter caps when in an amp.

BUT,

using insulated wire cutters, just snip that resistor out. if you snip as close as possible to the actual resistor you should have enough nub to twist and solder a new resistor on those nubs left if wanted.

peace,
waldo
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby Staemius » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:32 am

I love the 410 and our other guitarist uses one as well. The best thing I did to it was send it to Jim Price at Omega Amps to make the drive channel useful. Great mod and I now have a lush drive channel - the channel is useless without some mod IMO. He also tends to reverse the polarity on the speakers (an easy do it yourself - just switch the connections) that helps the speakers bloom at louder levels. I'm using stock speakers - ok, but would like to eventually try something new. Currently using Tung-Sol power tubes - I'm running it a little hot actually and one tube is beginning to fry after about 6 months, lol.
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby keirweir » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:45 am

1 vote
Winged "C" (SED) 6L6GC
http://thetubestore.com/6l6gc.html
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby strumminsix » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:48 am

marcuskeyser wrote:also ...

Strummin ... do you like the JJ's ??? The speakers are 8ohm (4-10" Special Design Eminence® 8 ohm, 30 watt Speakers)
Waldo ... thanx for the tip !! btw ... kenny's tribute 2.0 is just about done!!! We'll need a WALDO BUFFER sponsorship banner :peas:

JJs have served me well for years and Bob at Eurotubes has always done right by me.

I'd try the speaker I referenced above.

BTW, my experience with winged C's is that they were cooked and crapped out after only a few months. Don't need that.
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby DeadAheadNH » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:32 am

Hi all ... pulled the trigger on some NOS JAN Philips 6L6WGBs.

I got a matched set for $60.00 (for 2) from Clark Amplification LLC in SC.
Check out this guys web site ... pretty cool :-)
http://www.clarkamplification.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClarkAmplification

Since these HR amps are fairly popular I thought you guys might all appreciate these factoids:

From our (http://thetubestore.com/jan6l.html) review of the JAN-Philips 6L6-WGB tube: "These puppies rock and would sound great in any setup where you want punch, clear highs and a tight bottom. [...] Very nice harmonic content, rich and deep. These bottles rock and would sound great in any setup where you want punch, clear highs and a tight bottom."

Here's an interesting side note: the JAN-Philips 6L6WGB tube has the identical internal construction as the Philips 7581A tube (the industrial version of the 6L6GC tube). The difference between these two tubes is only the size of the glass bottle. Although you may not get a 7581A's 35 watts out of the 6L6WGB, you can certainly get 30 watts without any problems. These are super durable tubes made for the US military in the mid '80's. Their specs are not the same as earlier 5881 and 6L6WGB specs from the 1960's. So to get to the point, the JAN-Philips 6L6WGB tube will work perfectly in any amp requiring a 6L6GC tube. Do not worry about plate voltages over 400V with this puppy.

Here's some more banter on the Fender Forum: http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?d ... ber=733552

In addition I'm also following Mike Clark's advice and am installing a 75 OHM resistor just before the plate to tame the voltage hitting hit. I'm not an amp tech so there's an element of trust going on here. I will add the schem for this mod as soon as I get it from Mike. He also suggested adding some resistors AFTER the Speaker output to show an 8 OHM load but reduce the wattage (-3Db) to the speakers - I believe there was a recent thread on this subject (viewtopic.php?f=346&t=9423&start=0). As to biasing I'm thinking at starting at around 30ma.

Lastly I will also follow Waldo's advice and snip the bass resistor.

In the preamp tube department I was thinking of toying with an old Mesa Boogie AT7 tube that I have kicking around. It is my assumption that this will yield the most subtle tone change of all the mods listed above.

I would love to get feedback from you amp techs to confirm that I'm on the right track or if not, to keep me from totally screwing up my amp :lol:

All parts are due to arrive early this week and I'd like to have it all installed for our HALLOWEEN gig!!

oh ... btw - DEADAHEAD NH is playing in Kittery Maine on OCT 30th - costume party !!!!! :twisted:

ps ... speakers are gonna have to be put on hold because 4 of anything good runs into $$$ :|
Last edited by DeadAheadNH on Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby DeadAheadNH » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:37 am

ppss ... thank you all that contributed ideas and suggestions - unless I get critical feedback from anyone on the above outlined plan I'll report the results on these mods when I'm done.

I found the DEFINITIVE Fender Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville technical documents. They're from a guy named Justin Holton and these documents have sorta disappeared from most archive sites. It's a veryyyy long read but for all you amp gurus this should be right up your ally. I'm hosting them an my site for now :-)

https://sites.google.com/site/deadahead ... ects=0&d=1
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Re: Fun with an HR Deville (4x10)

Postby DeadAheadNH » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:12 pm

DeadAheadNH wrote:unless I get critical feedback from anyone on the above outlined plan I'll report the results on these mods when I'm done.


OK ... so my parts arrived today and I headed straight over to my amp guy to get the show on the road. We determined that the only think wrong with the amp was a fried OEM Sovtec power tube (as was assumed) and everything else was completely fine, although he re-soldered the tube socket joints just as a good maintenance precaution.

The tubes that came were marked JAN Sylvania 6L6WGB which according to Mike Clark or rebranded JAN Philips tubes. The date codes were 7512 which means they're from 1975! As a courtesy he also threw in 2 used NOS GE AT7 tubes. Well my amp guy installed the power tubes (rebiased to 32.5ma) and we installed the AT7 into the phase converter and pre1 sockets, clipped r105 as per Waldo's instructions, and did some solder touch ups. Found out my Deville is an early model green pcb California made model - I think he said 96 or so.

So then we powered it up and we just looked at each other - that was NOT the same amp that limped into his store minutes earlier! He said he sees these Devilles all the time and believes this setup was one of the best tones he's heard out of one (mind you I was playing my guitar with Waldo's magic in it). I said job well done! That's it ... $110 bucks later I got 2 power tubes, 2 AT7, tlc and a bunch of free spare parts (enough to re-tube the amp if I decide to sell)

I made some audio clips for people to check out.

The first is some funked jazz blues in using BRIDGE+NECK and then the same with BRIDGE+MID+NECK
Jazzy Sample

The second is WRS using all 7 positions:
WRS Sample

0:03: NECK
0:16: NECK+MID
0:31: MID
0:47: MID+BRIDGE
1:02: BRIDGE
1:18: BRIDGE+NECK
1:34: NECK+MID+BRIDGE

o tone pot is NO load (Detente pos)
o Blender is ACME (either 0% or 100% in these samples)
o PU-blue/silver/red LACE
o amp settings tone=12 O'clock vol=2 verb=2, bright=off, clean channel
o recorded with sm57->yamaha mixer->soundcard->audacity (real LOW TECH!!!)

basically I hoping for a subtle organic pleasant old school tube sound - nothing shrill, boomy, muddy, or in any other way annoying - I think I got something in that direction now (early Bassman??)
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