Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

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Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:11 am

Discussion began in this thread, from an archive.org user review of 2/26/77: http://www.rukind.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=309&t=8143
In the 7/12/76 soundcheck pics (GDG, p.176) , this keyboard is seen sitting atop Keith's Rhodes:
Image
ARP(by Solina) String-Ensemble into a Mutron III on hi-pass setting is my guess.


Anyone agree or disagree that this is the keyboard sound on the debut of Estimated Prophet, 2/26/77? http://www.archive.org/details/gd1977-02-26.sbd.cantor.deibert.83283.flac16

On what other songs (specify dates if possible) was the String-Ensemble was used?
Last edited by tigerstrat on Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby playingdead » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:30 am

Those ARP things sound more like strings, although I suppose feeding it through a MuTron might change its character enough.

If you can stand it, think of Styx's "Come Sail Away" and that's what the ARP sounded like.

It sounds like it could be some sort of organ without a Leslie, or a really bad clavinet sound.

Whatever it is, it sounds lame!
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:14 am

Lame-sounding, I agree.

They appear to have fooled around putting it through the Mu-Tron on the following night as well, but ditched the pedal for subsequent shows. At Winterland in March, it sounds like it's probably the S-E again, but w/o Mu-Tron. http://www.archive.org/details/gd77-03-18.sbd.unknown.254.sbeok.shnf

Kinda wondering what tunes it would have been used for in 1976...
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby mttourpro » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:42 pm

I think it's very likely that is the board in question....I don't know what other songs it was used for---perhaps nada. He didn't use it on Terrapin or Wheel and (IMHO) those are the songs on 2/26/77 that would best loan themselves to that thing.

I'm also gonna guess it's not on anything in 76 given that if they only used it for Estimated he probably didn't have it then---or, do you know of pics where he does have it in 76?
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:18 pm

mttourpro wrote:I think it's very likely that is the board in question....I don't know what other songs it was used for---perhaps nada. He didn't use it on Terrapin or Wheel and (IMHO) those are the songs on 2/26/77 that would best loan themselves to that thing.

I'm also gonna guess it's not on anything in 76 given that if they only used it for Estimated he probably didn't have it then---or, do you know of pics where he does have it in 76?


The pic where I spotted the S-E was the 7/12/76 soundcheck: Image
the Gear book has a better view of the S-E on p. 176

And now to hijack my own thread: check out the glimpse of Moog in this circa 1978 shot (Moog pedal board too) Image
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:26 pm

Image

6/8/77: is this the same Moog?
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:29 pm

Here's the 7/12/76 pic from the Gear book:
Image
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby JonnyBoy » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:09 pm

I thought I read on the Archive that they plugged the Mutron into the Moog for that show, the guy sadi he was only a few feet away and saw it form his own eyes. I may be mistaken about which board, but I do believe he said Moog and he sounded like he knew something about gear. Check out that archive link to the show and read the feedback from the people that were there. :D
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:29 am

JonnyBoy wrote:I thought I read on the Archive that they plugged the Mutron into the Moog for that show, the guy sadi he was only a few feet away and saw it form his own eyes. I may be mistaken about which board, but I do believe he said Moog and he sounded like he knew something about gear. Check out that archive link to the show and read the feedback from the people that were there. :D


This thread got started from another one discussing that archive post; I'll re-post the link viewtopic.php?f=309&t=8143.

Whether or not you or I find the reviewer's Jerry>Mutron>Moog account to be credible is what that thread is about. I listened, heard Jerry's mutron sounding like it should, but Keith's sound is what was different to my ears. In the Orpheum pic there is a Phase 100 sitting on the S-E, so maybe that's what that high sweep is.
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby mttourpro » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:56 am

I'm no expert on old analogue boards but I think it's far more likely that the Moog would get plugged into a device like the MuTron (or some other effect as is seen in the pic with the Arp having a pedal next to it) rather than the guitar getting plugged into the Moog.

Back then I don't think you could plug a guitar into a synth of any sort and use the guitar to control the synth sounds....I could easily be wrong, but then again, why would they have built guitar synths in the 80s if all you needed to do was plug your guitar into any old synth to effect the guitar sound? It is possible that Moog may have had a way to play the guitar through the synth and at least use some of the internal parameters---I'm not familiar enough with them to know for sure. I do believe it's true to say one couldn't do that with an ARP Odyssey or ARP 2600.

As for what tunes might have been played with that ARP S-E in 76---that's a good question for which I don't have an answer---I listened to the whole soundcheck from 6-12-76 yesterday and couldn't hear anything from the ARP....I'll have to listen extra hard to some other 76 shows and get back if I hear anything that might apply.
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:55 pm

But Pete Townshend did just that: guitar into ARP 2500 or 2600 on songs such as "Goin' Mobile"(1971), "The Relay" (1972) and "Who Are You?"(1978) [url]http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/equipment/guitar/equip-arp.html
[/url]

Still, those were all some fairly radical sounds. The guitar on the clip in question sounds just like Mu-Tron III in LP, but it's the keyboard that sounds... wacky imho.
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Re: Keith's ARP String-Ensemble keyboard

Postby mttourpro » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:18 pm

:shock:
from that link...

Pete’s guitar is being proccessed through an ARP 2600 synth. The guitar output is fed into the audio input of the voltate-controlled filter (VCF) section of the synth. Using the sample-and-hold function, the output is connected to the VCF, which automatically turns the frequency (tone) of the filter to different, random positions in a rhythmic style.



I never knew that. I always thought he just used the synth in and of itself for those tunes.

Interestingly (and fittingly I guess), he is on the cover of the Odyssey's owners manual.
The sample-and-hold function is really cool to mess around with. I used to spend a lot of time fiddling about with it.

So, maybe that reviewer was right when he said Jerry ran his guitar though the Moog at that show.
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