ENVELOPE? Name That Effect(s)!!!

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ENVELOPE? Name That Effect(s)!!!

Postby pappypgh » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:59 pm

I just left this link on the last Envelope post, but figured maybe you gearheads out there could help me out, if you saw a new thread.

I have been chasing down (trying to figure out) this effect sound for almost 18 years. Ever since I saw Spring Tour 91 and heard Bob Weir - louder than ever - and with this particular squishy sound I'd never heard before.

Check the link and click on the Music Never Stopped > Don't Ease Me in track. Bobby comes in right around the same time the vox come in on MNS.

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU KNOW WHAT HE'S USING!!!

http://www.archive.org/details/gd91-06- ... sbeok.shnf

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!!! :shock:
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"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby Capt Rosebuddy » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:08 pm

I have absolutely no business posting a reply to this due to my sheer lack of actual concrete knowledge regarding these matters, but here goes. I think it's the Ibanez AF 9, but I can't find any proof that Weir used it. The Ibanez UE 400 also apparently had a wah feature but I don't know if Bob was using his in the 90's, my guess is he wasn't. Ibanez made several auto filters over the years so I don't know if the AF 9 was the one Bob had or not.
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Postby strumminsix » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:31 pm

I hear it distinctly:
- sun went down in honey part
- resolving from the B walk-down jam back to E

I have no clue what he is actually using. My guess is: AF9 + distortion + swell

I get a very similar sound with:
bridge pickup + Emma + Barber LTD (OD) + PH350

Now the PH350 is a rotary phaser so it has some inherent swelling type sounds which is why I am guessing a swelling type of pedal.

Now feel free to argue with me :cool:
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Postby pappypgh » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:50 am

strumminsix wrote:I hear it distinctly:
- sun went down in honey part
- resolving from the B walk-down jam back to E

I have no clue what he is actually using. My guess is: AF9 + distortion + swell

I get a very similar sound with:
bridge pickup + Emma + Barber LTD (OD) + PH350

Now the PH350 is a rotary phaser so it has some inherent swelling type sounds which is why I am guessing a swelling type of pedal.

Now feel free to argue with me :cool:


NO WAY MAN!! :lol:


I have NO idea what it is. It really sounds very much like a good Envelope filter with some kinda cool setting that maybe just can't be found on a Q. I don't think it's a swell in volume, but more a swell in envelope...weird. GREAT sound, eh???
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby strumminsix » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:20 am

HA! Ya know my first thought was that it was the ColorSound wah/swell pedal:

http://filters.muziq.be/model/colorsound/wahswell
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Postby jeffm725 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:23 am

Capt Rosebuddy wrote:I have absolutely no business posting a reply to this due to my sheer lack of actual concrete knowledge regarding these matters, but here goes. I think it's the Ibanez AF 9, but I can't find any proof that Weir used it. The Ibanez UE 400 also apparently had a wah feature but I don't know if Bob was using his in the 90's, my guess is he wasn't. Ibanez made several auto filters over the years so I don't know if the AF 9 was the one Bob had or not.


The UE400 doesnt have a wah feature it has a compressor, phaser, overdrive (or distortion depending on version), flanger/chorus.



It could have been an AF-9,Bob did use one off and on.
It also could have been the custom Cutler Pedal that he had in a Wah case which was a combination of a Phaser and a Wah (The sweep of the Phaser was foot controllable)....however it doesnt sound like he was using his foot to rocker a pedal while he was singing, it sounded more like an auto-triggered effect.

Also it really could have been one of 100
different things. It is very, very hard to tell...so without asking him (and he probably wouldnt remember anyway :D ) we can just speculate.

For sure it would be pretty easy to get in that ballpark using an AF-9, some distortion and some compression,
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Postby pappypgh » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:39 am

jeffm725 wrote:
Capt Rosebuddy wrote:I have absolutely no business posting a reply to this due to my sheer lack of actual concrete knowledge regarding these matters, but here goes. I think it's the Ibanez AF 9, but I can't find any proof that Weir used it. The Ibanez UE 400 also apparently had a wah feature but I don't know if Bob was using his in the 90's, my guess is he wasn't. Ibanez made several auto filters over the years so I don't know if the AF 9 was the one Bob had or not.


The UE400 doesnt have a wah feature it has a compressor, phaser, overdrive (or distortion depending on version), flanger/chorus.



It could have been an AF-9,Bob did use one off and on.
It also could have been the custom Cutler Pedal that he had in a Wah case which was a combination of a Phaser and a Wah (The sweep of the Phaser was foot controllable)....however it doesnt sound like he was using his foot to rocker a pedal while he was singing, it sounded more like an auto-triggered effect.

Also it really could have been one of 100
different things. It is very, very hard to tell...so without asking him (and he probably wouldnt remember anyway :D ) we can just speculate.

For sure it would be pretty easy to get in that ballpark using an AF-9, some distortion and some compression,


I have a feeling he would remember. Does anyone know how I can talk to him?! :roll:

After all this time I've been trying to find this sound - it's STILL killing me!!! :?
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby Pete B. » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:58 am

fwiw, Bobby can be seen playing the intro to MNS using a Boss Auto-Wha (not sure if that is the correct name), in a officially released Vault DVD (can't remember which one, but can check it tonight).
I specifically recall seeing the Boss Auto-Wah pedal in Bobby's rig, right before they kick it off, while Bobby is adjusting some knobs.
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Postby Tennessee Jedi » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:13 am

The T-Wah?
As seen in this link?
http://www.pedalarea.com/env_followers.htm
:smile:
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Postby tigerstrat » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:21 am

Dozin talks to him now and then.

Just sounds like an ECF to me, and the one he is known to have used was the AF-9. Distortion added during the 1st verse.

Pete you sure about the Boss sighting? The AF-9 is the same color/size/basic shape.

Kinda interesting how Garcia uses Mutron on most of the song too. This was a hot show, one of the best Deer Creeks, the only two with Hornsby.

Check out Bobby's envelope riffs on He's Gone, 7/2/87:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1987-07-02.beyer_m88.connor.tetzeli.35441.no-replay-gain.flac16
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Postby pappypgh » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:35 am

tigerstrat wrote:Dozin talks to him now and then.

Just sounds like an ECF to me, and the one he is known to have used was the AF-9. Distortion added during the 1st verse.

Pete you sure about the Boss sighting? The AF-9 is the same color/size/basic shape.

Kinda interesting how Garcia uses Mutron on most of the song too. This was a hot show, one of the best Deer Creeks, the only two with Hornsby.

Check out Bobby's envelope riffs on He's Gone, 7/2/87:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1987-07-02.beyer_m88.connor.tetzeli.35441.no-replay-gain.flac16


I was at both of the Deer Creek shows this tour... sickleberry - even w/ Vinny (Bruce was great). Bob was EN FUEGO this whole tour.

I will have to look into this AF-9 everyone's talking about.

TS - for a completely DIFFERENT Weir envelope sound on He's Gone check THIS out:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1985-0 ... eok.flac16

The one you put up (I have that show) is great! Bob uses that "thin" envelope in that version...The one I put up he uses this really "thick" envelope.
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby Pete B. » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:44 am

I think it is the MNS on VFTV II:

http://www.amazon.com/Grateful-Dead-Vie ... B00005NOOJ

I'm at work, but if anybody can throw it in and confirm, that'd be cool.
~pb
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Postby Emoto » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:47 am

pappypgh wrote:... Bob was EN FUEGO this whole tour.


Help an old head out. What does that mean?
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there...
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Postby pappypgh » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:56 am

Emoto wrote:
pappypgh wrote:... Bob was EN FUEGO this whole tour.


Help an old head out. What does that mean?


ON FIRE!!! :cool:
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby Tennessee Jedi » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:56 am

en fuego = "on fire" in Spanish.
:smile:
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