My band, up close and personal

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My band, up close and personal

Postby playingdead » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:45 am

Maybe too close ...

We had someone film us from the front row for a tune with an HD camera. Scary.

http://playingdead.net/081508chinarider.html
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Postby weirimpressed » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:59 am

rockin it out yall!
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Postby pappypgh » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:13 am

You guys sound fantastic.

Great job! :cool:
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby old man down » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:28 am

A little constructive criticism might go a long way here, so take it in the spirit of bettering yourselves.

You're failing to levitate the song. I can't quite place the reason for this but my suspicions lie with the rhythm guitarist and/or the drummer failing to stay on or ahead of the beat. You guys know your parts but it is like everyone is listening to someone else to queue up what they should be doing rather than relying on internal clocks to set the beat. What then happens is that there is nothing you can do about it and things proceed into a sort of metronome-constant that lacks any dynamic.

So what can you do?

First of all, the rhythm guitarist should be pulling things along from the very start, almost rushing things to an uptempo just so that no one gets comfortable. I'm assuming that his guitar sounds much louder in person due to some directional mic problem of the HD camera, but if this isn't the case he's got to step up and get some volume to bring some punch to his sound. The drummer will then pick up on this and so will the lead guitarist and maybe you'll get on top of the beat. Don't think for a second that the rhythm guitarist doesn't make the rest of the band sound good. It is almost a proverb. Once you do get on top of the beat the song will start to levitate. It will get into an auto pilot where eveything doesn't have to be perfect, the central ideas will carry things forward, and you'll have a blast working things into a sweet groove.

If you do this, suddenly those nice lead lines will have real direction and inspire rather than come across as little more than correct notes within the scale. You've got to live this stuff, you can't phone it in. The way it is now, it sounds like you just woke up and need that first cup of coffee in the morning.

Just trying to help.
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Postby pappypgh » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:58 am

HOLY CRAP, OMD! I almost don't want you to listen to ANYTHING from my band, theCAUSE, especially 'cause we don't even HAVE a rhythm guitarist! :shock:

Just kidding man - if there's one thing I've learned in the past 10 years, it's to accept constructive criticism as just that - nothing personal, just one person's opinion and take what you can from it, 'cause you just may learn something!

I will agree that their RG needs his volume beefed up. I think that, alone, could have done WONDERS for that China>Rider - which was still, as I said earlier - a really hot version. If his volume is up, you may hear more interplay btwn him and the drummer, as you mentioned - as well as btwn him & the lead player.

I love playing that song - even with only one guitar in the band...kinda fun trying to cover all of the ground! Our keyboardist plays a whole bunch more rhythm in that song, to keep it from sounding thin.

Good critique, tho - you're a listener. I love listeners....

Pappy
www.theCAUSEjams.com

PS - DON'T LISTEN TO OUR STUFF, I COULDN'T TAKE THE BASHING!!! ;)
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby Tennessee Jedi » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:22 am

Holy Crap !
Thats wailing !
Some good licks to steal - the modern Jerry solo from ChinaCat ....
Old Man Down
I couldnt disagree more with ya !
On so many levels !
I'm thinking the mic in the camera could be the prob as you said or maybe it was synched to a mix where Bob was mixed low.

The way it is now, it sounds like you just woke up and need that first cup of coffee in the morning.

I think you need the cup 'o joe my friend !
I think they sound tight and inspired.
These guys obviously have a ton of time put into their gig.
You've got to live this stuff, you can't phone it in.

Ouch !
:D
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Postby weirimpressed » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:44 am

lol Tennessee is tearing me up :D

still think yall tore it up. Have you all been playing this combo a lot lately?
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Postby tigerstrat » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:55 am

I listened to the 1st two verses only of CC (DSL/busy day) great job so far! Definitely gave me a mid 70's vibe on CCat. Is the audio as OMD said, from the cam? Agreed "Ace" is a slightly low in the mix, as is "Reddy" and the overhead/snare is rather loud to my ears. Sounds like a club-sized board with the mix resulting from maybe rhythm & bass being (or becoming) loud onstage and Vic being not-as-loud onstage? Sounds better than many of my bands club SBDs. JGB small-venue SBDs are often like that but much much worse, especially from like 82-83, while the AUDs sound amazing.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby playingdead » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:42 am

Old Man Down actually is right on the money ... I wouldn't say this is the best China Rider we've ever done ... I just found the perspective of the camera work fairly intriguing ... and inspiring to lose a little weight, fer chrissakes. And I need to use my pinky more :shock:

It's one of the more inconsistent tunes we do, actually, there's not typically a good transition from the drums to the double-time, and the jam usually ebbs and flows instead of building to a great big crescendo ... I didn't think it really caught fire until I kicked on the overdrive toward the end -- by accident, too. Good input.

The camera is synced to a mix off the board; the rhythm guitar is much too low, and the mix is mono, which doesn't help.
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Postby mttourpro » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:29 am

playingdead wrote:I just found the perspective of the camera work fairly intriguing ... and inspiring to lose a little weight, fer chrissakes. .


They say the camera adds 20 lbs--I wouldn't sweat it...more authentic that way anyhow.

As for the tune (CC), it sounds pretty good to me.
I guess the RG could have been louder but otherwise, very nice job IMO...It was hard to listen long though because it kept starting and stopping, which, is fairly unusual given I'm at work on a T-1 line and cannot recall that happening any other time...likely has to do with the enormous data/bandwidth or whatever associated with the HD format.
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Postby Crazy 9.5 Fingers » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:05 pm

I did an HD TV spot for work this year, a regular camrea puts on about 15 lbs, HD about 25 IMO.

I think you guys sound great btw.
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Postby Emoto » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:17 pm

mttourpro wrote:
They say the camera adds 20 lbs--I wouldn't sweat it...more authentic that way anyhow.


Wow! So if I throw my 4 cameras away will I be thinner????

:lol:
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there...
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Postby playingdead » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:18 pm

Ha ... I'm 6'1 and 192 lbs. as of this morning.

I wonder what effect Jerry's weight/capacitance/inductive resistance had on his tone? Was his tone fatter when he was fatter, say, 84-85? Did it become thinner and more brittle as he aged, or was it just the speaker simulators and the Bolt guitar? Hmmmm.
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Postby tigerstrat » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:22 pm

playingdead wrote: Did it become thinner and more brittle as he aged, or was it just the speaker simulators and the Bolt guitar? Hmmmm.


Firm believer that the Bolt had absolutely nothing to do with the brittleness. Listen to Bolt on Fall 93 JGB tour... PHAT.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby mttourpro » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:25 pm

playingdead wrote:
I wonder what effect Jerry's weight/capacitance/inductive resistance had on his tone? Was his tone fatter when he was fatter, say, 84-85? Did it become thinner and more brittle as he aged, or was it just the speaker simulators and the Bolt guitar? Hmmmm.


I think it depended on what exactly got him fatter and thinner. I hear playing on a full stomache of chilli dogs and Haegendaas is good for one's tone.

I personally prefer a big plate of sushi unless I'm slumming it in which case I opt for the heavy carbo-loaded-pre-jam-meal followed by several IPAs.
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