"Tigering" out my strat!

Chat about Equipment Info

Postby playingdead » Tue May 20, 2008 12:23 pm

My Strat was based on Dozin's schematic, with an SDS-1 in the neck position. At the time, there was an error in the schematic which my luthier corrected, but I think it has since been fixed.

My Tiger has three Super IIs, and since Resurrection took over building the Cripe Bolt guitar for the family, I imagine they do them the same way Gary Brawer does, but I can't say for sure.

The guitars have about the same level output and overall sound, with a little more weight and resonance behind the Tiger guitar. I later modified the Strat for a dual tone control so the neck and bridge pickups would have their own controls; on the Tiger, they are ganged the way Jerry's was.
User avatar
playingdead
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1724
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:55 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby jenkins » Wed May 21, 2008 4:26 pm

Is that the Bolt schematic on dozin's site or what?

IMO your tiger sounds much more like Bolt than tiger, at least from the recordings ive heard that you posted.
Im wondering if thats why your strat had too much high end.

A guitar that sounds like Garcia's tiger should sound great for any style of playing, except probably metal. Unlike BOlt, which really sounds like it would only be good for more HIgh end, super clean tones.
jenkins
Billy
Billy
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:56 pm

Postby playingdead » Thu May 22, 2008 4:24 am

The Bolt and the Irwin guitars are wired identically ... the Bolt sounds thinner on the recordings because they got rid of the power amp speakers and went direct from the Trio to the PA.
User avatar
playingdead
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1724
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:55 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby waldo041 » Thu May 22, 2008 5:52 am

playingdead wrote:The Bolt and the Irwin guitars are wired identically ... the Bolt sounds thinner on the recordings because they got rid of the power amp speakers and went direct from the Trio to the PA.



this is partially not true. bolt is wired like rosebud, not tiger nor wolf. similiar but different. for one, rosebud and bolt have a flipped and rewired middle pickup to eliminate the out of phase in single coil 2 and 4 positions per gary brawer. tiger does not, and wolf is wired for parallel/series. also i believe bolt and rosebud share a tap toggle for the neck humbucker with the bridge humbucker for single/series operation. and lastly, because rosebud and bolt have humbucker neck position, they share a tone control and cap ala' dozin schematic. neither wolf or tiger share a tone control. they have there own cap and potentiometer for each pickup.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2826
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Postby playingdead » Thu May 22, 2008 7:29 am

True, but essentially, for 90 percent of what Garcia played with Tiger, Rosebud and the Bolt from 82-95, we were hearing a single coil of the middle Super II through the unity gain buffer.

My point is that there really should be little difference in tone between Tiger, Bolt and Rosebud into the same amp and speakers given the middle pickup. The 94-95 shows he played with Rosebud sounded pretty much the same as the shows he did with the Bolt -- thin and trebly. The "thinness" and brightness had nothing to do with the Bolt's wiring, particular schematic or electronics, IMHO.

There may be slight differences, due to the neck-through design of the Bolt and different woods used, but I think they would be very incremental differences in sound that would be more noticeable with the guitar strummed unplugged. The other differences -- SDS-1, reorientation of the middle pickup, ganged tone controls etc. -- would come more into play when other pickups were used in combination.

The Wolf is another story, but I never really liked the tone of that guitar; 77-79 is my least favorite era for Jerry's tone until the Tiger appeared for the fall tour. I was fortunate enough to see my first Dead show in 1978, so I had a lot of live listening experience with everything from the Wolf onward, usually up close.

If I had to pick up a favorite, it would be his Tiger sound on the 82 spring tour, super clean and extra sparkly! 8)
User avatar
playingdead
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1724
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:55 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:31 pm

So I switched my tone control (Super II + JB Jr., Waldo's TUGB, 25k vol pot)) from a 500k + .047 to a 250k + .047 cap (the cap is nothing special, a silvery-coated polyfilm type that was leftover from my Boss SD-1 mod). This has wayyyyyy smoothed out the threshold and made more of the rotation usable. I don't think it's removed any treble detail. Liking it! Really starting to get into the itch to try out some premium tone caps, like silver mica, Mallory, etc.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
User avatar
tigerstrat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:20 pm
Location: Portland,OR

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:31 am

tigerstrat wrote:So I switched my tone control (Super II + JB Jr., Waldo's TUGB, 25k vol pot)) from a 500k + .047 to a 250k + .047 cap (the cap is nothing special, a silvery-coated polyfilm type that was leftover from my Boss SD-1 mod). This has wayyyyyy smoothed out the threshold and made more of the rotation usable. I don't think it's removed any treble detail. Liking it! Really starting to get into the itch to try out some premium tone caps, like silver mica, Mallory, etc.


Forgot to mention, the "250k" pot actually measured 320k (over 25% off!), and it is one of the original pots that came in the Strat. But 320k happens to work great for my setup.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
User avatar
tigerstrat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:20 pm
Location: Portland,OR

Postby waldo041 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:38 am

tigerstrat wrote: Really starting to get into the itch to try out some premium tone caps, like silver mica, Mallory, etc.


No ceramic disk?

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2826
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Postby Jon S. » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:52 am

tigerstrat wrote:
tigerstrat wrote:Forgot to mention, the "250k" pot actually measured 320k (over 25% off!), and it is one of the original pots that came in the Strat. But 320k happens to work great for my setup.

This point is often overlooked: the typical components can vary considerably one to the next. +/- 25% is not uncommon. When you consider that this actually means one can be +25% and the other -25% for a net variance of 50%, the difference can be huge.

Makes that $49 Radio Shack multimeter investment worthwhile, doesn't it? ;)
User avatar
Jon S.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm

Postby DenverEd » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:54 pm

I bought a used 65 reissue. What is the deal with the JBL E120 speakers? Will this amp really sound better with these? It looks like there are discontinued in any event. How much should I be paying for a used pair? Do I need the 8 ohm or 16 ohm versions?
DenverEd
Steal Your Face
Steal Your Face
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:59 pm
Location: Beautiful Colorado

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:44 pm

DenverEd wrote:I bought a used 65 reissue. What is the deal with the JBL E120 speakers? Will this amp really sound better with these? It looks like there are discontinued in any event. How much should I be paying for a used pair? Do I need the 8 ohm or 16 ohm versions?


It will sound different. Minimal speaker distortion, more treble "shimmer"... a Twin will want to see two of the 8ohm wired in parallel, but I guess you could hook up four of the 16ohm if you wanted. Most commonly I have seen them for around a $100-120 a pop, depending on condition. I got my pair from a Bandmaster cab that Simon Babbs was selling locally on CL for $400.... I like to tell myself they came out of Jerry's cab at the end of some tour or other, although that likelihood is somewhat remote, and I'm sure that if Simon had any such knowledge he would have jacked the price severely. Anyone want to buy an unloaded Bandmaster cab? :-)
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
User avatar
tigerstrat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:20 pm
Location: Portland,OR

Postby jenkins » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:37 am

Just got my "tigered" les paul back this weekend. Based waldo's schematic.
The thing sounds awesome.
It will do any style of music great.
Definetly WAY closer to a garcia tone than a stock les paul.
Definetly does not limit you to Garcia only tones. I did everythign form garcia style to full shredding with it and it sounded awesome for everything.
jenkins
Billy
Billy
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:56 pm

Previous

Return to Grateful Dead Equipment Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest