"Tigering" out my strat!

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"Tigering" out my strat!

Postby razmablues » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:08 pm

So I've finally decided what type of tone i'm looking for... had a real hard time deciding between the single coil wolf, humbucker wolf, and tiger, but I've decided the tiger setup has the most headroom and spice for the notes i want to hit.

For the conversion process this what i've gathered might be good steps to take:

ordering a Dimarzio Super II for the middle pickup, i'm on there most of the time anyway, if money allows get another super II for the bridge and a SDS-1 for the neck.

I gotta get a hard tail, i found one that waldo recommended a while ago, "hot rod" tail pieces

I also think some sort of "buffer" tone mechanism would be very helpful. The two leading candidates i think are "Stellartone" tone pots, or the Alembic "Stratoblaster"

Other than that, i've already traded my Marshall JCM2000 for a reissue twin, and I'm gonna work on getting a JBL E-120.

anyway, are there any big components of the equation i'm missing or just little things that can help out?

thanks in advanced :smile:
razmablues
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Postby playingdead » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:28 pm

I went down that road before I had my Resurrection Tiger built.

I took a mid-80s American Standard Stratocaster, and did DiMarzio Super IIs in the bridge and middle positions and an SDS-1 in the neck. I bought the original CAE buffer (like Jerry's) from Cutler, and wired the guitar as per the schematic on Dozin's site.

(Too bad you're not a lefty, I'd sell it for a grand ... LOL)

If you want the Tiger tone, get the CAE buffer -- the CB1 -- here:

http://www.caesound.com/cae_prod_new.html

Your Twin reissue with JBL E120s will get you most of the rest of the way there; I used to use a Fender Vibrolux Reissue with a pair of JBL K-110s and it got me close. (If you are going to get just one E-120 I would run it alone, not with the Fender speaker on the other side. The E-120 is really vital to the sound, IMHO.)

People say the hardtail is really important to the tone, and I'm sure it is, but I never added it to my Strat, just some extra springs on the bridge to stiffen it up.

My "real" Tiger added a little more weight and bottom to the tone, and moving to a Twin head with a pair of JBL E-120s nudged me closer still. But 85 percent of it came from the DiMarzios, CAE buffer the JBLs, even though they were 10s.

*Disclosure -- a lot will come from your fingers, too ;-)

But I don't really think you will get "there" without that buffer, though, and hell, it's only $49.

Here are a couple of older MP3s of my band where I used the Jerrycaster and the Vibrolux ...

http://playingdead.net/1223lovelight.mp3

http://www.playingdead.net/eyez.mp3
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Postby playingdead » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:37 pm

One more piece of advice ... if you get the CAE buffer, it's on all the time, whether the loop is switched in or not. When the battery goes dead, the guitar goes dead. So don't make the mistake my luthier did, and just put the battery under the pickguard. When it goes dead at a gig, you will be very sorry. Nothing like taking off all the strings and loosening 14 screws while everyone waits for you because you don't have a backup guitar on hand.

We cut a channel on the back of the guitar for it instead. Much better solution.
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Postby waldo041 » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:43 pm

playingdead wrote: I bought the original CAE buffer (like Jerry's) from Cutler, and wired the guitar as per the schematic on Dozin's site.


neither of these are correct for tiger. CAE sound sells NOTHING that is actually in Tiger. And Dozin schem while very close is not exactly how Tiger is wired. that said, the cae sound CB-1 circuit is close to tiger's also. however, different materials are used in tigers. tiger also utilizes a Dual ganged potentiometer for the tone controls of the Neck(single), and Bridge(humbucker). they also get there own capacitor. a unique grounding is also used in wolf and tiger.


peace,
waldo
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Postby Dozin » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:52 pm

Waldo where do you get this stuff? A dual ganged potentiometer now? Did you look inside Tiger?
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Postby waldo041 » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:07 pm

Dozin wrote:Waldo where do you get this stuff? A dual ganged potentiometer now? Did you look inside Tiger?


as a matter of fact yes i have. i have some exclusive shots of the inside of tigers control cavity and under the tiger plate. i also have the same thing for wolf and they BOTH use dualganged potentiometers. wolfs is a type j and tigers is an ab mod pot. both wired different then your schem.

Image

peace,
waldo
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Postby Dozin » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:22 pm

Can you substantiate on this? I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything. It just seems like year to year it's something different. My schematic is from Tiger around the 1985 era. I know you and I have had discussions before about this but these guitars have been experimented with different setups A LOT. A dual ganged is a first for me.

I thought all the pots in jer's guitars were AB type J style pots.
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Postby tigerstrat » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:26 am

playingdead wrote:One more piece of advice ... if you get the CAE buffer, it's on all the time, whether the loop is switched in or not. When the battery goes dead, the guitar goes dead. So don't make the mistake my luthier did, and just put the battery under the pickguard. When it goes dead at a gig, you will be very sorry. Nothing like taking off all the strings and loosening 14 screws while everyone waits for you because you don't have a backup guitar on hand.

We cut a channel on the back of the guitar for it instead. Much better solution.


My battery is on the back and sits inside the trem cavity.
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Postby waldo041 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:27 am

Dozin wrote:Can you substantiate on this? I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything. It just seems like year to year it's something different. My schematic is from Tiger around the 1985 era. I know you and I have had discussions before about this but these guitars have been experimented with different setups A LOT. A dual ganged is a first for me.

I thought all the pots in jer's guitars were AB type J style pots.


we have discussed this. and i understand your reluctance to change anything on your site. you never know who is right or wrong. that said, did you have a look in tiger in 85? if my facts are correct, you received your schem secondhand with a couple errors, and had brawer fix the 5 way flaw. why is it inconceivable that your schem is misrepresented? if you remove the sds-1 in your schem and replace it with a super 2, i believe your schem would more match that of rosebud or bolt. the question would stand, did jerry have a parrallel neck or did he tap it with the open lugs of the bridge tap? my schems are actually from tiger. i also have wolf pics. i would release the pictures, but they technically are not mine to distribute. i tried in a post above to show you a little of what i have in that pic.

you are correct the tone pots were for the most military RV4 or type J. tigers dual ganged is actually an AB modpot. alembic to this day still uses modpots.

i also understand that these instruments went thru experimental times. however, my schems represent how they were left. i have a hard time believeing someone would go in and change all the controls after he passed. just to do it. i truly believe this is how jerry last played them, and probably how he liked them. i imagine a pickup change everynow and then, but not a complete workover everytime they opened them up.

dozin, i truly do understand your stance as far as changing the information you have provided on your website. for the most part it is pretty accurate. but there are some details that your site posts as fact that in my research have been debunked. 1 being the introduction of the john cutler unity gain buffer, and another is the layout you provide for the preamp tap. again, i understand your stance, but you have to understand that i am not just making this stuff up. i have actually done too much research on the subject and do have my own opinions that have come from that research. i tried to collaborate with you but get the gist that you have what you have and that is just how it is going to be. unfortunately some of your info is now published in a book, and it is simply not true.



peace,
waldo
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Postby waldo041 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:31 am

tigerstrat wrote:
playingdead wrote:One more piece of advice ... if you get the CAE buffer, it's on all the time, whether the loop is switched in or not. When the battery goes dead, the guitar goes dead. So don't make the mistake my luthier did, and just put the battery under the pickguard. When it goes dead at a gig, you will be very sorry. Nothing like taking off all the strings and loosening 14 screws while everyone waits for you because you don't have a backup guitar on hand.

We cut a channel on the back of the guitar for it instead. Much better solution.


My battery is on the back and sits inside the trem cavity.


i routed just below the trem cavity for a battery box.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... Boxes.html

i also later had made a custom plate like alligators so i could access the compartment when needed, without having to remove the strings.

peace,
waldo
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Postby playingdead » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:46 am

Didn't mean to start a controversy here ... my comment recommending using the CB-1 was more along the lines of not using the Jangletone, I believe the CB-1 is the "closest" to the sound you're after if the Tiger is what you want. The last thing you want to do, IMHO, is brighten it up anymore, which is what I believe the Jangletone buffer does.

There is (or used to be) an EMG buffer, as well.

This is interesting information, though ... I'm not sure what Resurrection puts in its guitars, although I specifically told them not to use the Jangletone buffer in mine. But I know my pickups are not wired in parallel, although I wish they were. Waldo, were the Tiger minitoggles three-way toggles, or just two-way?

Actually, on my Jerrycaster, I had the luthier install a double tone knob on it, so I had one tone control
for each pickup. My Tiger gangs the neck and bridge pickups.

Come to Boston, Waldo, and you can have your way with my Tiger 8)

And Chris, we should get together and jam sometime! I'd love to hear your Modulus.
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Postby playingdead » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:48 am

waldo041 wrote:i routed just below the trem cavity for a battery box.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... Boxes.html


That's the same box on my Jerrycaster, except he put it on the back of the guitar near the bottom horn. A much better solution; I couldn't put mine inside the trem cavity because it's still full of springs :shock:
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Postby waldo041 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:03 am

playingdead wrote:
There is (or used to be) an EMG buffer, as well.


Emg's PA-2 is the JG-1 with a switch. remove the switch and it is a JG-1.the JG-1 can be special ordered, but it really only the switch that is removed. it is more like a stratoblaster with adjustable gain.it was actually what John of DSO used for a period of time. i believe he has cb-2 in his carvin now.

playingdead wrote: Waldo, were the Tiger minitoggles three-way toggles, or just two-way?

Tiger and Wolf both had 2 way switches. wolf was wired for parallel/series and tiger was wired for series/single. although all three can be had with an on/on/on 3 way switch.

playingdead wrote:Actually, on my Jerrycaster, I had the luthier install a double tone knob on it, so I had one tone control
for each pickup. My Tiger gangs the neck and bridge pickups.


this is exactly how wolf and tiger are with there own capacitors also.

playingdead wrote:Come to Boston, Waldo, and you can have your way with my Tiger 8)

maybe one day! thanx :cool:

peace,
waldo
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Postby tigerstrat » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:15 am

waldo041 wrote:
playingdead wrote:
There is (or used to be) an EMG buffer, as well.


Emg's PA-2 is the JG-1 with a switch. remove the switch and it is a JG-1.the JG-1 can be special ordered, but it really only the switch that is removed. it is more like a stratoblaster with adjustable gain.it was actually what John of DSO used for a period of time. i believe he has cb-2 in his carvin now.

playingdead wrote: Waldo, were the Tiger minitoggles three-way toggles, or just two-way?

Tiger and Wolf both had 2 way switches. wolf was wired for parallel/series and tiger was wired for series/single. although all three can be had with an on/on/on 3 way switch.

playingdead wrote:Actually, on my Jerrycaster, I had the luthier install a double tone knob on it, so I had one tone control
for each pickup. My Tiger gangs the neck and bridge pickups.


this is exactly how wolf and tiger are with there own capacitors also.

playingdead wrote:Come to Boston, Waldo, and you can have your way with my Tiger 8)

maybe one day! thanx :cool:

peace,
waldo


The JG-1 is now the "JG-2" for EMG ordering purposes.

3-way toggles offer more options, but could be difficult to accurately switch in a live playing situation. I prefer series/parallel myself.
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Postby jenkins » Fri May 02, 2008 8:44 am

Hey waldo can you share the accurate tiger schem with us?

How did you get permission to show that pic of tiger that you took? It seems wierd to me that whoever let you take that pic would say you could post pics of the outside of tiger but not the inside? Thats not cool.
Seems pretty selfish of him to tell you that. There are a lot of people who really could gain a lot of insight if they could see the actual wiring in tiger.
Is he planning on selling Tiger replicas or something with the exact same wiring?

I wonder why there arent any pix of inside tiger form bfore Garcia passed.
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