Need some advice please

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Need some advice please

Postby BlobWeird » Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:54 pm

So i was thinkin of gettin a new guitar. I want somethin that really brings out that folk rock sound that jerry had. I was thinkin maybe savin for a lower end gibson. so can someone tell me if these are near what i want for a reasonable price?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=517222

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=518934

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=517265

Now im guessin the most expensive is gonna put out the best tone overall? but is it gonna be that much of a difference for the extra money put in?
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Postby strumminsix » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:28 pm

For folk rock I'd go with a single pickup Strat or Tele.
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Postby waldo041 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:57 pm

i have played a few carvin bolts and have a carvin neck on my strat now. they are quality stuff and i believe i have seen john from DSO playin one. these are the real deal are custom and are in a workingmans range. definately worth a look.

i like this one.
http://www.carvin.com/products/guitar.p ... ber=DC400A

http://www.carvin.com/products/guitars.php?CID=GTR


peace,
waldo :smile:
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Postby b weird » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:07 pm

I play a nice, cheap guitar that I found in a Sportsman's Guide catologe. It's a Harmoney that looks like a Fender Strat. Anyway it sounds like(plain guitar to amp) what Jerry sounded like in 1971 at the height of their Cozmic Cowboyness. I hope that helps some, if not well... Peace.
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Postby b weird » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:16 pm

Sorry I forgot to give you the link. It's Sportsmansguide.com then do a search for guitars its the Harmony Electric For 119.97. I love this guitar but you might be looking for a guitar that the pro's use.
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Postby steve » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:09 pm

when i saw dark star last, the guy playing the jerry part was playing a carvin, except he had the 3 humbucker set up. carvin makes a great instrument, my brother bought one of their basses and its been playing fine ever since.
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Postby wisedyes » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:53 am

A student of mine has a Gibson SG faded special. It's an okay guitar, has a neck like a baseball bat ( weird for an SG and a Gibson ), but is certainly by NO means a "bright guitar".

If you are looking for that bright, twangy, somewhat metallic sound you need to go single coil pickup, like a Fender style guitar. Jerry was playing a stock Stratocaster in 1971.

The suggestions being made for the Carvin Bolt guitar is a good one. Carvin makes excellent stuff, that is a very affordable guitar, and is a great deal and will give you exactly the sound you are looking for. You can also always pick up Fenders ( either a Strat or a Tele ) pretty cheap on Ebay.
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Postby waldo041 » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:27 am

steve wrote:when i saw dark star last, the guy playing the jerry part was playing a carvin, except he had the 3 humbucker set up. carvin makes a great instrument, my brother bought one of their basses and its been playing fine ever since.


i thought it was a carvin. the empty space between the neck and bridge on the stock carvin's has enough room for a middle pickup and for a few extra bucks i am sure they will route and put a humbucker in there for you.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Postby Crazy 9.5 Fingers » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:41 am

I think everyone is on point suggesting that you look for a Strat. A tele is a great axe as well but actually is a better guitar for Bobby's sound as he played big Gibsons in those days and mostly played in the out of phase pickup position in the middle. The tele can give you that sound minus the warmth of the hollow-body Gibsons Bobby was playing. Unless of course you get a tele thin-line which I use and is a terrific sounding guitar. But if you want that Jerry sound from 1970-to I think '74 when he started playing the Wolf, you have to go with a Strat. Jerry preferred the clarity of single coil pickups as well but later on had tappable humbuckers put in his customs so he could have both humbucker and single coil sound when he wanted. But the clear duck like quack of the Strat is all single coil. Jerry liked three pickup guitars with a 5 way selector like a Strat. I think any guitar company's version of a Strat will do the job. Mexican made Fender Strats are very reasonable and sound no different than the American Standard Strats. I think the one Jerry used as his main Strat was a Rosewood fret-board. It was a 1954, and was a gift from Graham Nash actually. You should play a Rosewood and a Maple fret-board and see which one you like better, they do have a slightly different vibe from each-other. Maple is a little brighter than the warmer rosewood board. Jerry liked a clean tone, hence his settling on Strats and then customized versions of Strat-like guitars like the Wolf. Jerry also liked high action as well to clean up the sound even further. Set up a Strat with high action, use a thick pick, crank it through a Blackface Fender Twin Reverb and you will have the tone you seek. Now if we could all just channel his fingers somehow....
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Postby waldo041 » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:58 am

Crazy 9.5 Fingers wrote:I think everyone is on point suggesting that you look for a Strat. A tele is a great axe as well but actually is a better guitar for Bobby's sound as he played big Gibsons in those days and mostly played in the out of phase pickup position in the middle. The tele can give you that sound minus the warmth of the hollow-body Gibsons Bobby was playing. Unless of course you get a tele thin-line which I use and is a terrific sounding guitar. But if you want that Jerry sound from 1970-to I think '74 when he started playing the Wolf, you have to go with a Strat. Jerry preferred the clarity of single coil pickups as well but later on had tappable humbuckers put in his customs so he could have both humbucker and single coil sound when he wanted. But the clear duck like quack of the Strat is all single coil. Jerry liked three pickup guitars with a 5 way selector like a Strat. I think any guitar company's version of a Strat will do the job. Mexican made Fender Strats are very reasonable and sound no different than the American Standard Strats. I think the one Jerry used as his main Strat was a Rosewood fret-board. It was a 1954, and was a gift from Graham Nash actually. You should play a Rosewood and a Maple fret-board and see which one you like better, they do have a slightly different vibe from each-other. Maple is a little brighter than the warmer rosewood board. Jerry liked a clean tone, hence his settling on Strats and then customized versions of Strat-like guitars like the Wolf. Jerry also liked high action as well to clean up the sound even further. Set up a Strat with high action, use a thick pick, crank it through a Blackface Fender Twin Reverb and you will have the tone you seek. Now if we could all just channel his fingers somehow....


that is great advice. i would like to interject that carvin guitars come with ebony fretboard's more like wolf, tiger, rosebud.
one more thing that i like about carvin is some of the guitars are neck thru and sometimes 3 piece's like wolf. man i am starting to sound like i am pushing carvin. sorry i will break away, where's my fender stratocaster??!! :cool:

also, jerry's perferred bridge was a tune o matic stop/tailpiece and actually modded the graham nash strat with a custom alembic one. to do this he also had to accommodate for the neck angle more like a gibson. that setup on a strat is a whole other beast. the quack of a strat with the sustain of les paul or sg.

also, coil tapping humbucker's for single coil tones is only good if the humbucker's are high gain like jerry's chosen dimarzio super 2's. you lose half the power of the pickup when you cut it in half. so if you have low or medium gain pickups half the output may be too weak of a signal.

hope this help's.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Postby Crazy 9.5 Fingers » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:43 am

I actually have a Strat that I built into kind of my own personal Wolf. It sounds pretty awesome. All I kept was the original body from the Strat. I ordered a neck from Warmoth to the exact dimensions and specs of the Wolf, including the scale length, neck diameter, and Les Paul styled headstock. Warmoth also put a beautiful ebony fret board in as well. The body I had routed to accommodate a single coil and then two humbuckers in the bridge and middle. At first I went with the Jerry preferred Di Marzio set up and didn't;t really like it all that much. I then went with a DiMarzio Red Velvet in the neck and liked that a lot. I have since put Duncans in there and love them. As far as matching the outputs when I tap the buckers, it is tricky. Is that why jerry had unity gain built into his customs.
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Postby caspersvapors » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:01 am

pics?
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Postby strumminsix » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:12 am

Really listen to the advice from Waldo about splitting.

Weak humbuckers will sound like crap when split to single.
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Postby BlobWeird » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:18 am

Thanks for all the help guys. I actually just got done completely customizing my guitar. Its only a squier strat but i figured what the hell. I bored out the headstock and put grover locking tuners in. Then I bought a pealoid pickguard to fit a bridge and neck humbucker and a middle single coil. then i bought 2 humbuckers, one a fat strat, and the second a bullet (i think im gonna switch to duncans though) and i got some sweet tone knobs to match the p. guard lol umm also a new bridge so yeah it was alot of work but it looks pretty sweet for just a squier. Other than that i got an ovation acoustic electric thats beautiful in my eyes, Sounds beautiful too! and i just bought a used Schecter Omen-7 Diamond Series off a friend for 100 practically brand new. I figured i would give 7 string a shot if i dont like it i could always make some money off of it. But i tune it up so that its BEADGBE and i like it for pentatonics that way addin the notes on the B string for lower notes. alright im rantin now. Im done lol
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Postby waldo041 » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:35 am

Crazy 9.5 Fingers wrote: As far as matching the outputs when I tap the buckers, it is tricky. Is that why jerry had unity gain built into his customs.


naturally there will be a drop of around half when a humbucker is coil tapped. the buffer will not increase the gain of the pickup. it will bring to unity gain the signal it is fed. so if you are putting out a single coil output it will bring that to unity gain and change the impedaence for long cable runs. same with a humbucker. no DB gain just a cleaner signal.

jerry's onboard buffer was designed to run as an effects loop. sending the strongest unity gained signal to the effects, thru the effects,back to the guitar and finally out thru the master volume out to the preamp.

with a standard guitar setup the Unbuffered signal comes from the master volume to the effects then to the guitar. this is flawed, for one short cables are a must because unbuffered the cable capacitance will degrade the signal on long cable runs. secondly effects like the mutron and octave divider's love hot signal's, so john cutler and jerry figured why not run the buffer and effects thru a loop before the tones and master volume so that ALL effects get FULL pickup signal and are then controlled by the guitar's master volume and tone controls.

ultimately this allowed jerry to dial in (even out) each effects volume compared to the clean signal and not have to worry about volume drops when effects were engaged.

this is the reason why so many have trouble dialing in jerry's mutron tone with a mutron. with weak pickups and a master volume at 8 or 9 and a 20 foot cable the mutron is not getting all the signal it want's/need's.

if signal degradation was not a factor, one could simply remove the master volume of the guitar and run the effects before a volume pedal then to the amp/preamp essentially using the volume pedal as the guitar's master volume.

crazy 9.5 fingers, i sure would like to see some pics of your axe. sound's like a nice instrument. i have a wgd warmoth body i put a carvin neck on and am in the "finishing" phase of the build.

peace,
waldo :smile:
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