The structure of this tune

Re: The structure of this tune

Postby tcsned » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:22 am

Pete B. wrote:Play this lick while holding a standard "C-chord" in open position... the "9" is simply the pinky hammer-on on the B-string/3rd fret... which is part of the "Theme" lick for this tune.

E|-------------------------------------
B|---------------------------3-----1--
G|---------------0--------0----0-----
D|------------------------------------
A|--3--------3-----------------------
E|------------------------------------

A slight derivation:
E|-------------------------------------
B|---------------1----------3-----1--
G|------------------------0----0-----
D|------------------------------------
A|--3--------3-----------------------
E|------------------------------------

yep, exactly - though I would probably call that chord a Cadd2 since there's no 7 but that's just semantics
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Re: The structure of this tune

Postby Pete B. » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:30 am

I don't disagree with those chord names... But I don't hear it played as a chord... to my ear it's a single note.
fwiw, I think of the "9" as an extension of the C-Ionian/Major-scale.
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Re: The structure of this tune

Postby tcsned » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:36 am

Pete B. wrote:I don't disagree with those chord names... But I don't hear it played as a chord... to my ear it's a single note.
fwiw, I was trying to show the 9 as it can be counted as an extension of the C-Ionian/Major-scale.

Agreed, you have it right. It's more of a melodic thing than a chordal thing. I was just trying to explain what Rusty was talking about - spent too much time in grad school in education - can't stop explaining stuff ad nausea :)
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Re: The structure of this tune

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:40 am

I labeled it as C9 just because Phil's lick features the D very prominently. Not sure whether it's right or wrong... personally I'll stick a 9th over just about anything major-ish, I love that note.

I have some recordings where Jerry really plays around with that major 7th and some where I don't hear it as much.... but it definitely fits, I think.
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Re: The structure of this tune

Postby Pete B. » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:05 am

The "Structure" you posted works good.
I like to use the chord name to label the sections, instead of A,B,C.
I picked this Wheel at random (added 1 C Break at the end):
http://www.archive.org/details/gd77-02- ... sbeok.shnf

C INTRO
[G] (THE WHEEL IS TURNING)
C BREAK
[F] (WON’T YOU TRY)
C BREAK
[F] (WON’T YOU TRY)
[G] (ROUND, ROUND, ROBIN RUN AROUND)
[G] (THE WHEEL IS TURNING)
C BREAK
[F] (Jerry Solo)
C BREAK
[F] (Jerry Solo)
[C] (SMALL WHEEL TURN BY THE FIRE AND ROD
Etc then stop, then:
Bound to cover just a little more ground)
[G] (THE WHEEL IS TURNING)
C BREAK
[F] (WON’T YOU TRY)
C BREAK
[F] (WON’T YOU TRY)
OUTTRO: C Jam
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Re: The structure of this tune

Postby tcsned » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:55 am

Rusty - I hope I didn't come off like I was saying either you or Pete were wrong about anything I was just trying to clear up dleonard's issue. I think things like these distinctions are really just semantic differences but can be confusing as we all have our own way of explaining and understanding.

I agree with Pete, I like the use of the start chord to define the sections - it works well for this song since the different parts start on a different chord. Yet another tune I'll have to dust off for my upcoming OBX gigs :)
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Re: The structure of this tune

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:15 am

Good addition, Pete B! I think that needs to be there. I have no idea which one I listened to last night after the very depressing Celtics game during which I did a fair amount of self-medicating. :drink: :D

No worries even if you were disagreeing with me, TCSNed! I'm here to learn.


The only problem I see with labeling the sections with the chord names is that "Round Round, Robin Run Around" is very different from "The Wheel is Turning" - but I still like the chord labels better... it'll make a much more useful chart on stage. Maybe G.2 for that section or something? I can't think of a way to label it that isn't confusing.



Note to the keepers of the chord charts: the chart here shows the last "Wheel is Turning" section as C and F instead of G and C. I believe this is incorrect.

Thanks for all you do, I'm so lucky to have this site as a resource! :hail:
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Re: The structure of this tune

Postby Pete B. » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:34 am

Rusty the Scoob wrote:...The only problem I see with labeling the sections with the chord names is that "Round Round, Robin Run Around" is very different from "The Wheel is Turning" - but I still like the chord labels better... it'll make a much more useful chart on stage.


Yeah, for me it's more of a quick on-stage que to help keep my sheete t'gether in real time as the song progresses... and I then I know the words/chords for either section.
Now I have to go see if this matches the Studio Version... Maybe tomorrow :D
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Re: The structure of this tune

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:00 pm

I'm constantly revising my chart for this. I think this is a big improvement. All 3 "chorus" sections are essentially the same, the only difference is that the middle one is instrumental:

Intro
Chorus 1,
Bridge #1,
Chorus 2 (partially instrumental)
Bridge #2
Chorus 3
Outtro



Here's a more expanded version. I think the paragraph spaces help a lot:



[C] INTRO

[G] (THE WHEEL IS TURNING)
[C] BREAK
[F] (WON’T YOU TRY)
[C] BREAK
[F] (WON’T YOU TRY)

[G (bridge #1)] (ROUND, ROUND, ROBIN RUN AROUND)

[G] (THE WHEEL IS TURNING)
[C] BREAK
[F] (Instrumental)
[C] BREAK
[F] (Instrumental)

[C (Bridge #2)] (SMALL WHEEL TURN BY THE FIRE AND ROD
Etc then stop, then:
Bound to cover just a little more ground)

[G] (THE WHEEL IS TURNING)
[C] BREAK
[F] (WON’T YOU TRY)
[C] BREAK
[F] (WON’T YOU TRY)

[C] OUTTRO
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Re: The structure of this tune

Postby ImJerryToo » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:02 pm

Too funny... Listening to the tune from Alpine 7/19/89 as I'm browsing the thread, and Jerry lost track! He could've used a Scoob Sheet.

He briefly lost it right about, uhh... Bridge 2, I guess (the F - Bb bit right before "Big wheel turned by the fire and rod"). (Is that Bridge 2? :-) )


One other comment on the thread -- the lick posted by Pete B might work OK, but to Jerry it up, play it up the neck rather than open. Sorry I don't know how to stick tab in here... but for that first note there's a slide from F (3rd fret D) to G (5th fret D) that's pretty key. Also try sliding into that D (5th G --> 7th G). After the D I usually hit the G note as the open string, then end on C at the 5th.
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