Opening chord? Bb what?!

Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby strumminsix » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:29 am

Struggling with this opening chord. I don't hear Bobby doing anything but a Bb but cannot figure out what else is going on?!
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby strumminsix » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:32 am

Clearest shot I can find. Looks like a Bb triad and using the pinky to grab the C on the high E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciJsTB-sDeE
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby Grateful Dad » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:13 am

Looks like his index finger may be on the Ab on the D string creating a tension with a Bb7 chord inversion from which he does a hammer on with the sus4th. Pretty grainy image. Good luck!

I had a guitar teacher that could pick out the chord tones of anything you would give him, now he's retired from teaching and building guitars. I'd give my left arm to have an ear like his........ :lol:
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby jeffm725 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:44 am

Here is the Base chord I play and then you embellish this base with hammers with your pinky on the High e string C like you mentioned strummin,(shown here in parenthesis) also can use your pinky to hammer tones onto the B string (9th fret Ab) and G string.

Obviously you dont play all 6 strings at once, you can go for the bottom 3 or for, the middle few, or the top few depending on the portion of the chord tones you want to highlight at that time, but this full 6 string shape is the basis of what he is doing in my opinion.

E|-(8)--
B|--5--
G|--5--
D|--5--
A|--8--
E|--6--
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby strumminsix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:32 am

jeffm725 wrote:Here is the Base chord I play and then you embellish this base with hammers with your pinky on the High e string C like you mentioned strummin,(shown here in parenthesis) also can use your pinky to hammer tones onto the B string (9th fret Ab) and G string.

Obviously you dont play all 6 strings at once, you can go for the bottom 3 or for, the middle few, or the top few depending on the portion of the chord tones you want to highlight at that time, but this full 6 string shape is the basis of what he is doing in my opinion.

E|-(8)--
B|--5--
G|--5--
D|--5--
A|--8--
E|--6--


I don't think Weir does much embellishing. Check out 2:10-2:15:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOaSrnd6 ... re=related
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby jeffm725 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:08 am

strumminsix wrote:
jeffm725 wrote:Here is the Base chord I play and then you embellish this base with hammers with your pinky on the High e string C like you mentioned strummin,(shown here in parenthesis) also can use your pinky to hammer tones onto the B string (9th fret Ab) and G string.

Obviously you dont play all 6 strings at once, you can go for the bottom 3 or for, the middle few, or the top few depending on the portion of the chord tones you want to highlight at that time, but this full 6 string shape is the basis of what he is doing in my opinion.

E|-(8)--
B|--5--
G|--5--
D|--5--
A|--8--
E|--6--


I don't think Weir does much embellishing. Check out 2:10-2:15:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOaSrnd6 ... re=related


maybe not right there in that 2 second change , but that is not the only spot in the song that chord shows up. That is the very first chord of the song , as well as the ONLY chord in the whole open ended jam. He is not static in a single voicing that whole time.(in the intro OR the jam)
In fact you can see a portion of the voicing I charted in the clip you just posted. Index finger barred across the 5th fret though the middle strings and then building the alternate voicing from there.
Need a guitar in hand to hear what I think I am seeing there for the alterations, but he has dropped the 6th string from that voicing so he is starting on the A there (it looks like the 8th fret like I have in the chart) but he has such large hands he could grab for the 10th fret G there as well, it would work)
I need to try this on my axe when I get home but here is what I think it is:


E|-----
B|--5--
G|--5--
D|--6--
A|--8--
E|-----


and By the way, I was wrong about him omitting the 6th string in the voicing, he is playing it with his THUMB on the 6th fret! (Look closely)
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby strumminsix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:33 pm

Odd, my whole reply is shot. Readers digest version:
- Thanks!
- Wow didn't see the thumb
- Wish I had a guitar in hand
- I'm curious if that isn't maybe starting on the D string?
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby jeffm725 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:54 pm

strumminsix wrote:Odd, my whole reply is shot. Readers digest version:
- Thanks!
- Wow didn't see the thumb
- Wish I had a guitar in hand
- I'm curious if that isn't maybe starting on the D string?


Strummin Absolutely COULD be starting on the D string and that voicing it WOULD make sense in that it is the Dominant Bb note (8th fret- D string). What throws me off is what his MIDDLE finger is doing. It looks like the middle finger is on the 6th fret, no? And if the middle finger IS on the 6th fret somewhere and it is NOT the D string then it has to be the G string, right? But a C# there would not fit at all I don't think. And the middle finger doesn't look like it is all the way up on the B string even thought the F note there would fit. So I kinda got there (the A string) just by process of elimination using what I know to be the chord tones there and an approximation of where on the neck he is fretting. Could be totally off though :? :smile:
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby strumminsix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:13 pm

Okay, scratch that D string. Check out 6:40. You see Weir's guitar pop in on the left! (and some embellishment)

I do see the thumb in some but not others. This is what my eyes think they see

E|--8--
B|--5--
G|--5--
D|--6--
A|--8--
E|-----

Guitar chords online says it's a Fmmaj7
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby jeffm725 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:25 pm

By the way, since we are on the subject of the Thumb and we are talking St. Of Circumstance, just wanted to point out the the Thumb plays an Integral and absolutely necessary (if you wanna be Bobby) part of the Lost Sailor Intro. I always meant to tab all that out as it is probably the single most requested thing from my Deadhead guitar students, but you cannot play the Lost Sailor intro just exactly perfect without using your thumb, and god knows I have tried every which way because I have small hands and the Thumb deal doesnt work so well for me....
If you want to see what I am talking about there, watch the 1980 Radio City deal (Dead Ahead I think) anyway, that has FANTASTIC shots of Weirs hands during Lost sailor.
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby strumminsix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:42 pm

jeffm725 wrote:just wanted to point out the the Thumb plays an Integral and absolutely necessary (if you wanna be Bobby) part of the Lost Sailor Intro.

How so. Here is what I've watched him do many times:
Code: Select all
e----------2-----------2------2----------------
b--------2-----------2--------0----------------
g------2-----------2---------------------------
d----4-----------4-----------------------------


the full barres over the 3rd for the second part of the verse
Code: Select all
e-----3-----------
b-----3-----------
g---------4-------
d---------4-------
a------------5----
e-----3-----------
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby jeffm725 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:55 pm

strumminsix wrote:
jeffm725 wrote:just wanted to point out the the Thumb plays an Integral and absolutely necessary (if you wanna be Bobby) part of the Lost Sailor Intro.

How so. Here is what I've watched him do many times:
Code: Select all
e----------2-----------2------2----------------
b--------2-----------2--------0----------------
g------2-----------2---------------------------
d----4-----------4-----------------------------


the full barres over the 3rd for the second part of the verse
Code: Select all
e-----3-----------
b-----3-----------
g---------4-------
d---------4-------
a------------5----
e-----3-----------


cheating... :smile: :smile: :smile: nah but seriously that of course would work and its a small thing but Bob always used the low F# on the 6th string as the start of the intro and used his thumb to make the downsweep easier. Rather than debate or speculate it though I will just cut the little 30 second intro from the video I copped it from and you will probably have the same exact AHA! moment that I had when I saw it. :smile:
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby strumminsix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:02 pm

I'm sure you are right and he uses his thumb at times but on other videos I'm not hearing it.

Bob does alot that only Bob knows he does (and you, Jeff!) as it's not heard clearly at all! HA!
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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby jeffm725 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:16 pm

just cause I promised I would (and plus I think it is cool):

especially the 1:25-1:35 mark he uses his thumb not only for the f# but for the G!

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Re: Opening chord? Bb what?!

Postby jeffm725 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:58 pm

Maybe better quality and the FULL Lost Sailor, as there are some really good hand shots of Bob and Jer all the way through.



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